H.R. 1592 would provide Federal assistance to States, local jurisdictions, and Indian tribes to prosecute hate crimes.
Detailed Summary
Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act of 2007 - (Sec. 3) Defines "hate crime" as a violent act causing death or bodily injury because of the actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, sexual orientation, gender, gender identity or disability of the victim.
(Sec. 4) Authorizes the Attorney General, at the request of a state, local, or Tribal law enforcement agency, to provide technical, forensic, prosecutorial, or other assistance in the criminal investigation or prosecution of any crime that: (1) constitutes a crime of violence; (2) constitutes a felony under state, local, or Tribal laws; and (3) is motivated by prejudice based on the actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability of the victim or is a violation of the state, local, or Tribal hate crime laws. Requires the Attorney General to give priority for assistance to crimes committed by offenders who have committed crimes in more than one state and to rural jurisdictions that have difficulty covering extraordinary investigation or prosecution expenses.
Authorizes the Attorney General to award grants to state, local, and Indian law enforcement agencies for extraordinary expenses associated with the investigation and prosecution of hate crimes. Requires the Department of Justice Office of Justice Programs to work closely with grant recipients to ensure that the concerns and needs of all affected parties under the grant program are addressed.
Sets forth requirements and deadlines for grant applications. Limits grant amounts to 0,000 for any single jurisdiction in any one-year period.
Requires the Attorney General to submit a report to Congress on the grant program by December 31, 2008.
Authorizes appropriations for FY2008-FY2009.
(Sec. 5) Authorizes the Office of Justice Programs to award grants to state, local, or Tribal programs designed to combat hate crimes committed by juveniles. Authorizes appropriations.
(Sec. 6) Authorizes appropriations for FY2008-FY2010 for additional personnel to prevent and respond to hate crime violations.
(Sec. 7) Amends the federal criminal code to impose a fine and/or prison term of up to 10 years on any person who willfully causes bodily injury to any person, or who, through the use of fire, a firearm, or an explosive or incendiary device, attempts to cause bodily harm to any person, because of the actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability of such person.
Requires certification by the Attorney General or other Department of Justice official of certain findings relating to an alleged hate crime prior to initiating a prosecution for such crime.
Excludes evidence of expression or association of a defendant in a hate crime prosecution at trial, unless such evidence specifically relates to the offense being prosecuted.
(Sec. 8) Provides that nothing in this Act shall be construed to prohibit expressive conduct or activities protected by the First Amendment.
Status of the Legislation
H.R. 1592 was passed in the House of Representatives on May 3, 2007.
Points in Favor
From the American Civil Liberties Union:
Hate crimes based on sexual orientation, gender, gender identity, and disability are a daily event. H.R. 1592, the Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act, will go a long way toward ensuring that hate crimes are fully investigated and prosecuted.
Prosecuting violent hate crimes is critically important. So is protecting the Constitution, due process, and our First Amendment rights to speak freely and associate with whom we'd like.
H.R. 1592 allows federal law enforcement agencies to investigate and prosecute hate crimes offenses in cases where local law enforcement lacks the resources, or in some cases the willingness to do so.
In the past, the ACLU has opposed hate crime bills because they were written in a way that threatened constitutionally protected speech. But the legislation introduced by Rep. John Conyers shows that it is possible to protect targets of hate crimes without jeopardizing free speech or association rights.
It's vital that hate crimes legislation ban prosecutors from introducing evidence of hate speech or membership in groups with bigoted beliefs unless they are specifically and directly related to the crime. H.R. 1592 includes explicit protection for speech and association, unless it specifically relates to a violent crime.
When a person inflicts violence based on hate, it is important that they be punished. But defendants must have a fair trial, regardless of the people they associate with, and what they say. While we both may disagree with some people's speech, it must be protected or all of our speech is at risk. H.R. 1592 protects both civil rights and free speech, and should be passed into law.
Points Against
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Visitor Comments
Harmony Grant
This is the most dangerous bill in America. It will shatter our freedom of speech, empowering the government prosecute "bias," intervene in states' law enforcement, and create a caste system of crime victims. Perpetrators of "bias crimes" will get TRIPLE penalties. Hate laws have led to persecution of conservatives and Christians in Europe, and even in Philadelphia in 2004, when 11 Christians were jailed for peaceful evangelism on a public sidewalk. See www.truthtellers.org for more information and PROTEST THIS BILL.
R. Manns
We the people can do but one thing - ensure those who vote for this atrocity are not re-elected.
They are proving once again, they are not the thinkers one would hope to have in leadership positions.
Clifford Ishii
The answer to HR 1592 is underground Christianity
Judy Huston
I've never understood why we would need a so-called "Hate Crime" bill as all crime is hateful. This is just another step to destroy our constitution, one step at a time. The homosexual community is the only ones to benefit from this bill. Remember our roots America!
M Nosretep
A crime, is a crime, is a crime. Incidents of crime, such as robbery and assault, are committed by one race against another daily. It is repulsive, that the severity of the penalties imposed should be based on race, religion, etc. This type of legislation creates many islands within America, one for each gender, race, religion, etc.
Proud Progressive
Burn in hell, homophobes.
Daryle F.
The purpose of this bill is clearly to persecute Christians. Perhaps they can add to the bill to send Christians to respect camps like in the UK so we can be reeducated to deny our faith. The bill is written so poorly that it can interrupt any way the courts want. Will the ACLU receive taxpayer’s money to drag me into court because I believe that marriage should only be between a man and a woman?
“SEC. 4. SUPPORT FOR CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS AND PROSECUTIONS BY STATE, LOCAL, AND TRIBAL LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIALS.
(b) Grants-
(1) IN GENERAL- The Attorney General may award grants to
State, local, and Indian law enforcement agencies for extraordinary
expenses associated with the investigation and prosecution of hate crimes.”
Proud to Be a Christian
In response to "Proud Progressive," your hate filled speech is indicative of the hypocrisy that so-called progressives and liberals exhibit on a daily basis -- you accuse us of hate speech, yet you would condemn us to an eternity in hell for our convictions. We do not hate homosexuals, nor are we afraid of them. We love them as Christ loved them and gave His life for them. We reject their behavior, but earnestly pray for their souls.
Another Christian
Proud Progressive: Several surveys have shown that the behaviour the homosexual groups label "homophobia" has few or none of the clinical indicators of a true "phobia", or fear of something. Please use correct terminology. It would also be helpful to your argument if you didn't use hateful words when you're supporting a so-called "hate crimes" bill. I didn't realise one could pack so much hypocrisy into 4 words, but you managed it.
Sweeping legislation that could infringe on my right to freedom of speech AND freedom of religious expression is dangerous and should be shot down.
Blessed Christian Connie
The maker of the world GOD said it very clearly in Lev. 18:22 homosexuals were an abonination, how much clearer can that get? We can only pray that God can open your eyes so that you won't burn in hell Proud Progressive that can not even give your name.
Mack
Blessed Christian Connie, neither the Invisible Pink Unicorn Goddess nor the Flying Spaghetti Monster has said any such thing.
Also, check your translations of the Bible. What it says is "And with a male you shall not lay lyings of a woman." Check out religioustolerance.org
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibh.htm
No one is sure exactly what that line of Leviticus means. It could mean that two men can't have sex in a woman's bed. It could refer, as the rest of Leviticus's male/male admonishments do, to Temple Prostitutes (usually male). We just don't know. EITHER WAY, if you know anything about Paul, you know that Leviticus is the OLD Covenant, and Jesus is the NEW Covenant. Nothing in the OLD Covenant applies to Christians (or else you must keep kosher and can't wear poly/cotton blends). Only Jesus does. Jesus never said anything about homosexuality, though he did heal a Roman soldier's catamite (young male servant / sexual servant) in Mat 8:5-13.
non denominational girl
I do not agree with any type of Bill that restricts our freedom of speach, beliefs, or choise of lifestyle. Please, all American's, be wise in your choises when voting and supporting our government. We have already lost so much control, we are dangerously close to no longer being "We the People."
And to the members of the Christian faith, be wise about how you reflect your disapproval of homosexuality, after all it is not our place to judge, as it says in the Bible many times. We are to love one another and lead by example. Please do not tell anyone they are wrong for how they live their life, instead, pray, be a good example, and reflect on how Jesus loved EVERYONE, all of Gods children.
Do not support this Bill!!!!
Mother
The bill is so outrageous, and most likely will pass through, but shame on those who feel the need for it. However they too are not above thier own law and these politicians had better watch their own words unless they provide for themselves a provision that excludes themselves in it! Dummies
Penny
This bill would not be an issue if true CIVIL RIGHTS were supported for all GLBT and the religious war against fellow Americans were called off. Hate is hate is hate... and conversely, love is love is love. Live and let love.
Jeff
Please read the bill yourself before making claims that are completely false. This bill is about protecting ALL Americans. This bill DOES NOT restrict your freedom of speach. If you want to denounce homosexuality and preach hate, then you'll still be able to do so even if this bill pases and thank God, it most likely will. I'd encourage everyone who herein feels that homosexuality is wrong to step outside of the misinformation such organizations like Focus on the Family and others are saying and get to know gay people in your neighborhoods and communities. You'll find we are no different than you and God loves all of us. Remember ... "love your neighbor as thy self ..." Peace and love.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c110:1:./temp/~c110PvEPP2::
Matt
This bill is nothing less than a broadside against the 1st ammendment. Nothing secret here. What are Christians to do? Preach the Gospel in all the world as a witness, then the end shall come.
John L.
I don't hold it against you for being Christian or Jewish or Mormon, etc., and I don't expect you to be against people just because they may be homosexual or atheist or even Muslim! Learn to live with the other people in the world, and pass this bill!
Michael
A hate crime is a crime in which the primary motivation for the action was hate againts an individual for personal qualities, such as sex, religion, color, or a number of other qualities. A hate crime's goal is to cause harm to an individual for these reasons.
When you rob a store it isnt to kill the clerk, its for money.
When you lure a man from a bar, beat him to death, and steal his shoes so he cant run away its a hate crime. You wanted to hurt him.
We need this bill. I hope it passes.
Tommy
Pray for Pres. Bush to hopefully put a big FAT veto on this bill.
But even if it gets passed him, the Supreme Court will deem it unconstitutional.
Tommy
Mack
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Joe Dadi
Have any of you even read the bill. It says nothing about your speech, thoughts, or writings. However, it does prevent you from inflicting bodily harm upon others using bombs, guns, bats, etc. I can't see your points. Tell you what, add niger to each of the places you put the word gay or fag then re-read your evil words.
Dan
As has been alluded to previously, speech, thoughts, opinions, and so forth will not be affected. You can still say what you feel in your heart and preach what you think is right. However, the bill does provide some protection against those who are the victim of violent crimes that involve the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force.
On a side note, it is interesting to note that in the bill, religion is also included under the umbrella of protection. Plus, it is always placed before sexual orientation, gender, and gender identity.
So, from my stance, it seems like a welcome bill that should be passed, regardless of the side on which you fall.
Tommy
Doesnt matter. Bush said today it will be vetoed.
What a great President!
Joann
We need to clean house. Make that House. And Senate. It's time we remove all these traitors from public office. They serve only themselves and the deepest pockets that approach them.
Kevin
Does anyone actually READ the bill before they post here? Seriously people, the very end of this states :Nothing in this Act, or the amendments made by this Act, shall be construed to prohibit any expressive conduct protected from legal prohibition by, or any activities protected by the free speech or free exercise clauses of, the First Amendment to the Constitution.
If for some reason you can't understand this, it says you can still say/think/believe whatever you want. This isn't an attack on Christianity, and for all Christians who think it is, I would like to remind you that the first amendment states that we are free to choose whatever religion we want. It does not say that we are free to worship Jesus however we want. This bill is about protecting all Americans, plain and simple.
Johanna
The problem with this is that if say a Pastor or a radio show host were to make a "anti-gay" or other "hateful" comment and someone listening felt compelled by this comment to commit a "hate crime", prosecution could also fall upon the Pastor or radio talk show host for insiting "hate crimes". That's where I think the real problem lies- where does the blame start and stop? If someone were spewing "hateful" speech which supposedly caused someone to commit violence would they be guilty too?
Orion
Ha Ha Ha... Now YOU know for whom the bell tolls, it is for the slow death of Fundi-christianity. Ha Ha Ha Ha.
Eva
I am for the bill, but clicked on against because I was trying to find out who voted against it.
Joe in Phoenix
This legislation is unnecessary and is based on a sizeable stack of lies. Why GLBT's (or whatever you people call yourselves) need special laws and protections is a mystery to me. A crime is a crime! We certainly don't need laws which prosecute people for what others think of their motives or their spoken beliefs or opinions. As a Bible believing Christian I'm sick and tired of turning the other cheek while the ACLU, GLBT's and far left liberals attempt to remove fundamental principles and the Judeo-Christian foundation from this nation.
Tracy K
Do we seriously need to create separate categories for people at every level? Does this say 'united' to you? For Gays, does this say 'I am fighting for equality' to you? The free speech debate is important.
However, what is the most horrendous about this is the importance RATING of who gets harmed and why. So, if a heterosexual non-demoninations,white man or woman is killed, our government feels that less emphasis should be placed on investigating and unishing that crime? Anyone want to offer a reason for this that should not upset people? That is if you are not gay, of course, because many of you seem to feel you should be special.
Michael
Motive is one of many aspects of crimes that must be proven for punishment. Motive is very important.
As a white male, no one will kill me on the street just because I'm white, and if they did under existing legislation, it would be a hate crime.
As a gay man, I could be attacked and slain because of my sexual orientation and the law doesnt concider that a hate crime.
Hate, as a motive, carries more penalty then a accident. There have been cases where gays have been attacked or killed and the killers were given light punishment because there is no law protecting gays from homophobia as a motive for assult and murder.
Clearly, this bill i needed.
Michael
Some further examples of why we need this law:
-Tennessee Williams was the victim of an assault in January 1979 in Key West, being beaten by five teenage boys, but he was not seriously injured. The episode was part of a spate of anti-gay violence inspired by an anti-gay newspaper ad run by a local Baptist minister.
-The beating death of Matthew Shepard, a gay student (1976 – 1998)
-One notorious incident of gay-bashing occurred on September 22, 2000. Ronald Gay entered a gay bar in Roanoke, Virginia and opened fire on the patrons, killing Danny Overstreet and injuring six others. Ronald said he was angry over what his name now meant, and deeply upset that three of his sons had changed their surname. He claimed that he had been told by God to find and kill lesbians and gay men, describing himself as a "Christian Soldier working for my Lord".[2]
Michael
-The beating death of Charlie Howard in Bangor, Maine in 1984
-On February 2, 2006, 18 year-old Jacob D. Robida allegedly entered a bar in New Bedford, Massachusetts, confirmed that it was a gay bar, and then attacked patrons with a gun and a hatchet, wounding at least three.[4]
-On July 30, 2006, six men were brutally beaten after leaving the San Diego, California Gay Pride festival. One of the gay men was beaten so badly that he had to undergo extensive facial reconstructive surgery. The attackers were all adults, except for a 15-year-old and were charged with hate crimes
Persecuted Christian
Why is big government persecuting me??? All I wanna do is get out of church on Sunday and throw a few rocks at the Negroes or fags on my way home. I ain't hurtin nobody. Didn't our great founding fathers define them darkies in the Constitution as 3/5 of a person?? I pray God's chosen one (George Bush) will veto this outrageous bill before the antichrist(Hillary, of course) puts her lesbo friends in charge and all us good white folk are put in concentration camps!
Ken Hissner
Bill H.R. 1592 is geared to prevent a pastor from reading scripture to his congregation if it say's anything negative about homosexual behavior. Seems seperation of Church and State do not prevent this. Put a stop to this broad condemation of the Bible.
Christian Visitor
Ok, maybe my reading comprehension is off, but where in this bill is "Speech" be limited ?
This bill is about adding Gender/Sexual Orientation to an Existing Hate Crime law dealing with Violence that causes bodily harm to another.
I can understand people opposing this bill if they like to harm others.
If this bill passes, I can still preach the Gospel, still quote outdated Livitical laws (that don't apply anyways)
Let this bill pass, or do you people opposed to it want to keep trying to beating up other people ?
Christian Visitor
Also for all the "christians" saying that this bill limits spreading the gospel.
Either you don't comprehend the bill, or you're lying, and the Bible if far more condemning on lying than homosexuals.
Megan Benton
Below is my letter:
I hear the senate is considering a bill that would make a pastor preaching against homosexual lifestyle a hatecrime punishable by the government. This law is again a blatant attempt to stomp on my 1st amendment rights. If they have the right to be gay, I have the right to say I don't agree with it. If you pass the hate crimes bill as written, go ahead and outlaw homosexuality along with talking about homosexuality. I think the world would be a better place if we just never mentioned it again! Get about the business of protecting our borders and enforcing our current laws (you know the ones laid out for you in the Bible called the 10 commandments). Stop trying to legislate morality. It is an impossible task that is distracting you from the work yu were elected to do.
Harry
Mack,
Find an accurate version of the bible not one customized for the gay lesbian agenda. I like the NASB. Next to the KJV widely reguarded as the most accurate word for word translation.
LEV 18:22
You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.
LEV 18:23
Also you shall not have intercourse with any animal...
LEV 18:24
Do not defile yourselves by any of these things...
LEV 18:30
Thus you are to keep My charge, that you do not practice any of the abominable customs which have been practiced before you,... I am the LORD your God.'"
LEV 20:13
If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act;...
1 COR 6:9
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
The bible is VERY clear in the matter of sin.
Clifford Ishii
The authors of this Bill(1592) will learn what the Romans,Russians,Chinese,etc have learned, all it will do is drive the real church underground and cause more problem for them. But in the end the relusts will be the same, the church will prevail
Dan Anix
Is our public school system so lax that we have this level of non-reading? Please, I beg of you, for the love of God, John Brown, or the Almighty dollar, read before you write.
If the Klu Klux Klan is allowed to hold rallies and parades for their causes and have it be legal, and the Supreme Court ruled that Nazis could hold a march down the center of Skokie, Illinois, a town with a significant jewish population, then we can deduce this bill isn't going to persecute you for talking. This bill is merely taking its merely taking existing hate crime legislation already on the books and amending it to give hate crime status to crimes against homosexuals. This bill doesn't block anything that isn't already very much illegal. It just makes the penalties more severe under certain circumstances. Nowhere in the entire bill does it make anything illegal or legal. Speech is legal. This only deals with things that are already illegal.
Guy Adams, Dir., ValuesUSA
I agree with Harmony. HR-1592, as well as S-1105, are the most dangerous bills ever introduced into Congress. Make no mistake about it: it is not just Christians whose free speech is at risk, it is everyones. I'm a law enforcement officer and I know the damage guns can do. But a gun in my hand, used for good, can also be turned into a weapon for evil, should it be taken from me. Such is the case with "hate" bills. Eventually, it will impact everyone.
Clay
Remember that YeHoWaH (God of the ancient Hebrews) wrote in the Book that ALL of these things MUST come to pass in order for ALL to be fulfilled. We must reach globalization, the auxillary Vicar must have his time of rulership, and these types of Draconian legislation must and WILL occur within the next couple of years so that all will be fulfilled prior to the return of Iesos Christos and the first resurrection and the complete abolishment of these governmental rulers and those who support it. Do not fear these changes. That is why WE were told about it in advance and know EVERYTHING which will happen in the near future. (those who embrace the world system are ignorant of the future having already been decided and can not understand their folly until the chosen time. Allow these things to happen as they must, and instead focus on the Blessings which will ultimately result. It is time to show compassion and love, not rebellion. God will sort through this mess without our help.
Stego
A dear member of my family is gay. I disagree with his lifestyle, but I still love him. He’s been attacked more than once by black men. But how would one prosecute such a case as this with this goofy bill as law? Did the "nigger" hurt the "fag" because he “felt” his gay lifestyle threatened his Muslim beliefs? After all isn’t it a lesser crime if the "fag" is white and his attacker is black? This Bill is stupid and WILL eventually lead to criminalizing the preaching of God’s Word, when expounding upon verses (from a legit version, not one misinterpreted to support GLBT views) that teach that sexual relations outside that of a man and his wife (both of which have had NO gender reassignment) as being sinful. Churches barring the unrepentant practitioner of sexual wickedness from membership and/or from holding office in the Church would be in danger.
Steph
This bill in NO way prohibits freedom of speech or thoughts. This isn't saying that thinking anti-gay thoughts will make you guilty of a hate crime. This is saying that attacking someone based on some unfounded bias is illegal.
And furthermore: did I miss the memo? Since when are we a theocracy? We are not a religious based government nor should our society be governed by religion. And doesn't another part of Leviticus state that it is acceptable to enslave peoples of neighboring countries? So does that mean I can go up to Canada and take a few of those people as my personal slaves?
WTF
How can you say that this bill takes away from freedom of speech? The last time I checked being convicted of a crime did not have anything to do with speech. It's peoples actions that this bill is trying to protect against. My great-uncle was attacked by three men. They attacked him because he was gay. I think that this crime should be punished harsher because they are not just a threat to him but too the entire gay community. These crimes also show premediation which warrants harsher punishment. And no offense for all you Christian, but in my experience those of you who preach against the sinfulness of the gay lifestyle are really just covering up your own sins.
And while someone is wrong to tell you guys to burn in hell they are not wrong to call you HOMOPHOBES!
Elena
it seems that people are believing that the governemnet if christian. not all crimes are hateful, Judy H. If someone is stealing your bread it is not because they hate you, but because they want your bread. if someone bashes your head in because you are gay, then THAT is hateful. along with "WTF" and the homophobe thing, a lot of homophobes are really gay people who won't except it. a person is still a person, even if they are different than you. one out of every ten people you pass by in one day is gay. one of your "friends" may secretly be gay. judging people on who they love is just what religion is not supposed to do. whatever happened to "peace and love" and all that shiz? What kind of honest christian can be so spiteful? "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" or how about the gay friend of Jesus'? Or do people not read the bible anymore?
Angel
This is all so disingenuous. Many Christians hate gay people because, like sheep they've been wound up and led to the hate yard by politicians who have found gay-hating to be great for their causes (which have nothing to with what Jesus preached). You, my fellow Christians, use "logic" to state your case against bills like this and against gays, but immediately throw logic out the window when it comes to reconciling Jesus' message of peace and acceptance with the venomous and even Luciferian twist on the religion that poses as Christianity these days. Leviticus also said you could sell your daughter into slavery. Lot offered his daughters as sex partners to a mob. Then he got drunk and had sex with them himself. My point is, there's plenty in the bible that is questionable. Leave it behind and focus on finding the true Christ that dwells, wordless, in you heart. Everything else will fall away. Let God deal with it.
Jon L.
It's depressing to see ignorance perpetrated so blatantly. If you actually READ the bill before passing judgment, there is a clause that says:
“Nothing in this Act, or the amendments made by this act, shall be construed to prohibit any expression conduct protected from legal prohibition by, or any activities protected by the free speech or free exercise clauses of, the First Amendment of the Constitution.”
-Sec. 8, Rule of Construction
You can see that the bill people are so afraid will take away their freedom of expression specifically protects these freedoms! Having been raised in a Christian home, and basing my entire moral code around Christianity, it truly saddens me to see such bigotry and hate being supported by 'Christians'.
Christian Visitor
yea Jon L. I pointed this out a few weeks ago, and most people just ignored it.
RPP
@Harry,
It seems that you are not very good at interpreting text for yourself.
LEV 18:22
You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.
This actually refers to the sense of submission inherent to a man and woman having sex. If two men (or two women) consider each other true equals in bed then there is no problem. God forbids only when one man uses another man for the purpose of sex, not when they both consent. I challenge you to come up with a unique integration that refutes that--that is to say one that is not verbatim church doctrine.
Furthermore, the law does not care what the Bible says. The law exists independent of the Bible—that’s why we separate church and state.
to RPP
Plus... not to be rude or anything, but it's not really possible for a male to lie with another male as he would with a female. It's not physically possible.
;)
Correction
to "to RPP"
Depends, is it before or after an operation ;)
Padric
The truth of the matter is this: crimes against gays, lesbians, transgendered, and transsexual people persist in the U.S. The following is also true: these crimes are often not as rigorously investigated as other crimes.
Many on this board ask, "Why do we need special protections for gays and lesbians?" To which I respond, as long as these crimes continue, special protections are needed, just as they are against minority religions, minority races, and other minorities.
The bigoted ideology displayed in these posts has no place in politics. All Americans must be protected under the law, and this bill ensures that protection for the GLBT community.
P.S.- I'm a PROUD homosexual and I don't see any moral sin about it! In fact, I tend to think I have higher morals, as I'm certainly more accepting than the lot of you folks ;)
Tim
Everyone who keeps writing about how this bill does nothing to prohibit free speech and the preaching/teaching what the Bible teaches concerning homosexuality needs to understand that although the bill does not say one cannot speak against homosexuality, if someone teaches against it, and those listening to the teaching commit a crime against a homosexual, the one who taught against the sin of homosexuality can also be prosecuted under this bill - having committed no crime, only teaching from the Bible that homosexuality is a sin. Just ask Congressman Artur Davis of AL (supporter of the bill).
Tolerant silent majority
Oh yes, the poor persecuted Christians. How do you sleep with your lies? How do you confuse YOU as persecutors and somehow manage to imagine that YOU are the persecuted? Amazing hypocrites! Amazing!
Voice of Reason
Michael, you listed three acts of violence against homosexuals as justification for this bill. However:
The murderers of Charlie Howard were never found.
Jacob D. Robida died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound during a police shootout.
The perpetrators of the Gay Pride beatings were sentenced to 11, 8 and 3 years.
How would the bill you support with these examples have changed the outcome? I would much prefer to see *all* crimes vigorously prosecuted than to create "special classes" that receive special consideration.
Legal Beagle
The bill defines a hate crime to include "bodily harm" - which supporters claim will preclude persecution of non-violent Christians.
However, "bodily harm" is legally defined as including "psychiatric injury which is more than fear" - that is, if a homosexual claims to have been psychologically damaged as a result of hearing a sermon against homosexuality, a hate crime has been committed.
And that is a loophole through which a truck full of anti-Christian activist lawyers will gleefully drive.
Brian2kathleen
Bills should not be passed just because they won't do any harm to society, but specifically because the will improve society. Otherwise, it's just dross.
Although Legal Beagle has a good point if (s)he is correct, the bill does specifically exclude free speech from prosecution, in deference to the First Amendment (how kind!).
My problem with it is that I don't understand why the murder of a gay person should be assessed differently from the murder of anyone else. Murder or violent crime of any sort is obviously a hate crime regardless of the specific motive.
pw
RPP
Aren't things wonderful when you can interpret things however you want? The fact is, that interpretation is what the author meant to say, not what you want it to say.
Christian Christina
A gentle correction for the misinformed.
Jesus did not come to bring peace between human beings. See Matthew Chapter 10 verses 34-39. The peace he brings is between us and the Father God through His blood sacrifice for the remission of sin. ALL who believe in Him and turn away from their sins will see eternal life. He would often tell those He healed and forgave to "Go and sin no more!" All sin is defined in the old testament laws and there is no one who is without sin!
As for this bill, it is not necessary for punishment of a crime. All crimes that physically or psychologically harm another person are already punishable by our existing laws. If any crime should be held as more heinous than another, crimes that cause physical harm or shed innocent blood of children, the disabled or elderly should receive the harshest punishments of all.
The Right Reverend
For the Biblically illiterate, Jesus certainly did teach on homosexuality. He did so by his pointed and direct definition of the human race ("made them male and female") and His definition of marriage (identical with Genesis) as the two (male and female) become one.
The Real Issue
I think the real issue we should be looking at here is that this bill makes it easier for Federal Funds to be channeled to local PD's to vigorously investigate hate crimes. What's goining to is that local PD's will find some reason to investigate some made up hate crime to waste our tax money.
Heidi
I just read this bill (which I don't think many of you have done) and I don't see one word pertaining to what anyone can say or express, in fact, there is a clause that says:
"Nothing in this Act, or the amendments made by this act, shall be construed to prohibit any expression conduct protected from legal
prohibition by, or any activities protected by the free speech or free exercise clauses of, the First Amendment of the Constitution."
-Sec. 8, Rule of Construction
This would include religion...
Heidi
If the bill is signed into law, it would only be applicable if:
- A crime occurs that includes an assault, aggravated assault, or shooting, and
- It can be shown that the perpetrator was motivated to commit the law because of hatred of one of the protected groups, and
From what I can tell, the only thing this bill does is add LGBTQ citizens to the list of others already protected from hate crimes based on race, religion, etc. It only gives right to prosecute actual
crimes against people based on these things, not what is said about these things.
So unless you right-wing "Christians" include violence against other humans as part of your religion, you can rest easy!
Intelligent Christian
This truly ridiculous. I am a very devout Christian who believes in standing up for what is right, but I have to echo what a few others have said and ask-have you people actually read the bill itself? Or did you go to some biased, propaganda spewing website to get your information? This bill as far as I can DOES NOT infringe upon anyone's freedom of speech and the only way someone could be punished for what you say is if it DIRECTLY relates to some PHYSICAL act of violence. Come on my Christian brothers and sisters....use the logic that God has given us and see through the mess.
Legal Beagle
Had to break into 3 comments to fit. *sigh*
Heidi wrote, "It only gives right to prosecute actual crimes against people based on these things..."
You might consider, Heidi, that the government has been granted the right to prosecute *all* "actual crimes against people", regardless of the alleged perpetrator's reasoning. This bill doesn't add to that right at all, and thus it is unnecessary.
(part 1 of 3)
Leagal Beagle
What this bill does (yes, I read it) is (1) add more money for investigating crimes against gays, inevitably at the expense of crimes against others, and (2) potentially tack an extra 10 years onto the penalty if the jury buys that the crime was committed primarily because the victim is gay.
As an egalitarian, I oppose legislation that provides special benefits for specific groups - *any* specific group - even if I'm a member of that group.
For example, as a Christian, I oppose special investigation budgets and added penalties for crimes against Christians by those who may hate us. It's unfair to atheists or Muslims or Buddhists who are victims - they have just as much right to public money for investigating their cases, and to the same penalties for those who victimized them. Thus, it's unfair.
(part 2 of 3)
Legal Beagle
The other problem is that "bodily injury" includes mental trauma. The very real possibility that an activist will claim that a sermon "mentally traumatized" him to leverage this bill against Christians makes it not only unnecessary and unfair, but unwise as well.
Thus, this "thinking Christian" opposes the bill AFTER reading it. I hope you will consider these points carefully before writing your representatives.
(Part 3 of 3)
Concerned Christian
Folks, are you actually reading this bill? Unfortunately, the AFA and Focus on the Family are lying to us. This bill has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with speech. It deals with "willful acts of bodily harm." Violent crime is the responsibility of the state, but the feds don't like the way the states are handling it and are trying to get their hands in it. This bill isn't aimed specifically at Christians; however, it'll give the feds more power to meddle in state affairs, and that can be dangerous. Don't support this bill, but don't do it because of supposed prejudices that aren't there.
Legal Beagle
Yes, CC, I read it.
You are making a classic error in supposing that legislation is interpreted according to Websters Dictionary - but in the USA, it's actually in terms of legal precedent, which can be very different.
Precedence shows that "bodily injury" is not limited to physical injury as you suppose, but includes mental trauma. Look it up.
Another relevant case illustrating "mental trauma" and the types of 1st Amendment problems created by "hate crimes" legislation is here:
http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/will062507.php3http://jewishworldrevi...
Legal Beagle
Sorry, that link should be:
http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/will062507.php3
Bob.
I hate Christians.
Actually, I don't. But what if someone were to attack or harm you (be it physically or verbally) on the sole basis that you were Christian? What would you do if you were brutally attacked simply because of what you believed in?
Oh, but then again, I guess for some of you, its no big deal, right? A crime is a crime, right?
Voice of Reason
Bob, if someone attacked me physically solely because I am a Christian, I would defend myself, and hope that you would help me despite your hatred. I would testify against my attacker in his trial for aggravated assault. And (listen carefully) I would not expect to receive special treatment over other victims just because my attacker was a religious bigot.
If I was attacked (yet again) verbally for my religious beliefs, I'd respond with love. No prosecution necessary.
Does this help you understand what's wrong with this bill?
Christian
This bill will make it Possible for my pastor to be sent to jail for preaching Romans chapter 1 which speaks against homosexuality, even though it is a sin and should be spoken against.
FreedomAdvocate
Public Advocate demonstrates in Washington, DC, protesting the Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Protection Act (H.R. 1592), which would grant special rights to homosexuals. This law would add sexual orientation to federal hate crimes statutes.
Watch Teletubby and Moses get arrested at the Capitol while angry bystanders demand the release of the purple teletubby, the "moral fiber of America." See Public Advocate activists hit the streets with this street theater demonstrating against Ted Kennedy's Thought Control Bill to give homosexuals special privileges: http://publicadvocateusa.org/
Colin
If the Canadian example is anything to go by, the vast majority of people being dragged into court on hate charges will be white men. They ought to rename this bill the 'hatred of white men bill'.
C. Williams
No, one has the right to tell you how to think... And that's what will happen if this BILL is passed. It equally hateful to take away the right to believe what you want... People keep saying don't hate on gay people, or muslims... well stop hating on Christians. IF there is no truth to what is being said, then tell them to leave you alone... If they say you are going to hell, so what., you don't believe in hell anyways so why do you care... Stick and stone may break my bone but names will never hurt me right? This is a mess. Muslims can say what they want... Gays can say what they want... etc... but People who believe in Jesus Christ can not??? How is the fair, but then people to day don't care about fair, only getting there way... You can believe how you want to. As long as people don't put there hands on you, then you should be able to think for yourselves. This is so messed up.
Erin
I do not understand people's comments here. I read this bill and no where do I see that you the "Christians" cannot preach what they believe. This bill is simply saying that causing harm to another person because of race, religion, sexual orientation, etc.. should carry a penalty acknowledging the ignorance that fueled the crime. We look back on the way our ancestors treated issues like slavery and we are ashamed that people who were truly good people treated others as second-class citizens purely based on the difference of race. Do you want your children to look back at you with this same sense of disappointment and disgust? It’s never okay to harm someone or treat someone as a lower-class citizen because of race, religion, sexual orientation, etc... I am a good Christian and I think God will judge anyone who judges others. I pity all those who use his teachings as ammunition for hate.
Gary H.
I agree with you Erin, I could not find anything in the text of the bill that made expressing your opinions a crime. My take on the bill is that it will provide for grants to help agencies (police & prosecuters) to prosecute so called hate crimes. I cannot find anywhere in it's text that would make it a crime to preach, protest or otherwise offer an opinion denouncing homsexuality.
What I do find obsurd is that there are hate crimes on the books in the first place. So where I find this bill to be dangerous is that it is just one small slip on that slippery slope to making certain kinds of speach illegal. So I understand the outrage by many over their belief that this bill will limit their speach.
Since hate crime legislation is bad law so is this - defeat it.
lalawyersperspective
The Supreme Court has consistently declined to confer 14th Amendment protection on homosexuals, on the basis of a finding that sexual preference is a matter of choice and not an immutable condition of birth. This Bill is a rather thinly veiled attempt by one specific group of individuals to obtain such protection via an alternate and surreptitious means. The danger lies not in the expressed language of the Bill, but in the application of the implied authority it affords those whose agenda it would serve to further. As a Christian I find this Bill deplorable. The ultimate goal is to render God's Word a crime and those who genuinely deserve protected class status have been used as the vehicle through which this lie seeks to become law. As a lawyer, I see the , "slippery slope", laid before us and pray that those in whom we have placed our trust will have the good sense to read between the lines and the integrity to vote accordingly.
Marcus
The harm in this bill isn't that it specificically points out christian's or those who would wantto share the truth of God, (which under it's surface it does do just that), but rather the fact that it gives specific privildged treatment to a select few based on there decission as to how they what to lead there life. ( I.E. immoral practices of homo-sexuality are protected.) There are already laws on the book that punish the crimes in general, I mean everyone know that if you use a firearm with the intent to harm regardless of your motivation you are in the wrong. However this does open the door to say see I have a law stating what I am doing is okay, ( living in sin) and therefore goes against the very commonsense of the godly man...
Are constitution was not made to give preferetial treatment to anyone, which is exactly what this bill does...
Mark Twain
Anyone who says this bill violates the 1st Amendment is an uneducated fool. If you've actually read the language of the bill you'd know that this bill protects all Americans, not a particular group as some ignorant homophobes claim. H.R. 1592 is about violent acts, not freedom of speech (unless you think beating up a homosexual is somehow protected under the 1st Amendment). I am utterly astonished that some Christians think that this legislation is somehow an attack on their faith. Sometimes I wonder if most "Christians" have actually even read the Bible. Judging from many of the comments posted on this site from religious fanatics, I'd say probably not.
Braindeath
H.R. 1592 is quite distinctly an act of social engineering by government; it does not give uniform protection/assistance to all victims of violent crimes therefore it is a discriminatory bill of bias in and of itself. Since what is defined as a hate crime is statistically far lower than standard violent crimes, the bill is stating that a biased violent act against a victim group is somehow more important than the majority of violent crimes. This bill is blatantly engineered as an act of oppression to dissidents that do not engage in what government has determined to be correct thinking. In other words government is telling the population that their thoughts and motivations better be “politically correct” regardless of whether they’ve committed a crime or not.
Braindeath
Anyone that advocates bills such as this is actually practicing their own type of bigotry and attempting to impose it on others. Government should treat all citizens equally instead creating groups for them. A violent act against another should be judged to see if it was of a malicious or faulty nature and not by the specific personal beliefs of the attacker. If you have politically incorrect personal beliefs then this bill is stating that you will not only be persecuted for your crime but you will also be persecuted for those beliefs. To understand the psychology and political motivations of those behind this type of legislation I suggest you watch “The History of Political Correctness” http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8630135369495797236&q=The+History+o...
Braindeath
What is ridiculous is that because of my disability I would actually fall into one of the special victim classes that this bill is purportedly supposed to be protecting/avenging. I DO NOT wish to be used as a prop to promote Marxist theorists’ methodologies in destroying western culture. This is another way to tighten the noose around the necks of those who resist indoctrination, control, and assault on their society. Go to Google videos and watch “The History of Political Correctness” to see why we are not experiencing natural cultural progression but a deliberate plot to undermine and destroy our nation.
Braindeath
I’m not a Christian (or even religious) but here is another good video that shows the true agenda of those promoting hate crime laws and the destruction of free speech: Hate Laws - Making Criminals Out of Good Christians - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ti1wzDrt8qE Free speaking free thinking people have much to fear from hate law legislation.
me
How ignorant can people be? I highly doubt anyone opposing this bill has ever personally experienced discrimination. Yeah, your freedom of speech would be in jeopardy (which it's not) but at least it's not your life that's in jeopardy. And you call yourself "good" Christians. You're anti-gay because it's what's in the bible. Do you follow everything that's in the bible? If not, stop complaining. And remind me... did this bill get passed into law? oh yeah, it did. ha.
Tyler
Have any of the Christians responding to this bill even read it in its entirety?
SEC. 11. RULE OF CONSTRUCTION.
Nothing in this Act, or the amendments made by this Act, shall be construed to prohibit any expressive conduct protected from legal prohibition by, or any activities protected by the free speech or free exercise clauses of, the First Amendment to the Constitution.
Also, in section 6 the sentences for violent crimes other than kidnapping/attempted kidnapping, murder/attempted murder, and aggrevated/attempted aggrevated sexual abuse are limited to 10 years and fines. No one will be punished for their speech, and no one will recieve "triple penalties" for non-violent crimes.
Don't get your feathers ruffled before you've informed yourself!
I wish this would stop
My close friend David tried to help as much as possible to pass this bill. He was just an average Mexican- American boy who was savagely beat and left for dead by two skinheads. I don't know if any of you have ever lost a dear friend, but I watched my friend undergo about thirty surgeries and struggle to survive as a normal human being. After watching him recover, I lost him a year later when he committed suicide becuase he couldn't handle living as "the boy" any longer. I remember him telling me he loved me a few nights before he died and I couldn't understand why. Now he's gone and I'm glad that his attackers will be in prison for life. I hope none of you ever have a child or a friend that is hurt like David was, then you will truly understand what this bill means.
Robbie Yohn
It's time to change the constitution to add Congress Shall control hate speech that incites murders,bombings,domestic terrorism. Hate speech is not free speech. There is a limit. Canada,UK,Germany, and many other countries limit hate speech. You can be publicly arrested in many other countries for making such comments. The religious right (reich) wouldn't last a day in the Netherlands,Denmark,or any other Scandinavian country because the government would rightfully arrest them. The pope is even careful what he says in Europe.
Personally There should be less freedom of religion. Communist Russia wouldn't allow Christian Right wingers to thrive. They'd be shipped to merry old Siberia.
I agree with Marx's statement that religion is the opiate of the masses.
Josh Taylor
I support this bill. It's time to make Christianity illegal in America. America's national religion should be Jedism.
Martin Luther King jr
to the one who said no one will kil me beacause im white if you believe that you're a dumb sh*t.
Benny
I see there is no shortage of jewish racism and hatred of Christians on this site. The same can be said for the Jewish "Holy" Talmud.
America slept when congress passed the Talmudic noahide laws that makes it a crime of being a Christian and the Talmudic sentence is beheading. According to Rev 20:4-6 that is exactly what the Jews will do to Christians. Of course that passage didn't name the Jews but it is plain who it will be since it is Jewish organizations Like the ADL and others that are behind these things.
Check out Ted Pikes video
Hate Laws; Making criminals of Christians.
You Christians need to wise up and realize who your true enemy is.
Tell others now and you may help to save a soul. Think about it. Satanic thought police, come and get me.
Benny
Something no one has even mentioned. This Law strengthens existing state Hate Crimes Laws. Almost all of those state laws punish people with prison sentences for hurting gays feelings but also the feelings of Jews. So say something against a Jew and go to Jail. Just like the Talmud and ADL wants.
Check out the Philadelphia 5 and the historical revisionists going to prison in so-called "free nations" all over the world for peacefully expressing a different view of History. One that the Jews do not like!!!!!!!!!
Martin K.
Imposing extra fines and longer sentences based on perceived discrimination will only create more animosity and division between us. A crime is a crime and the punishment should be relative to the severity of the act, not the origin of the motive.
Time for crime
This is BS. Just make the criminals do the time for their crime. Doesn't matter why they did it. Any vioilent crime that involves force or fear should get 40+ years in prison. No slaps on wrist. No early time for good behavior. Rot in jail, criminals.
clint
This bill is so dangerous to the rest of our freedoms. It doesn't matter what religion you are. The bill opens the door to infringe upon the right to speak our minds regardless of our opinions. It underminds the very heart of our freedom. The right to speak out about injustice. I cant believe we pay 165,000 per year per congressman to debate this. Why not just stiffer penalties for those who break the laws we already have? What will be next is our second ammendment.