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H.R. 543, The Blue Water Navy Vietnam Veterans Act of 2013 (7744 comments ↓)

H.R. 543 would amend title 38, United States Code, to clarify presumptions relating to the exposure of certain veterans who served in the vicinity of the Republic of Vietnam.

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WashingtonWatch.com Digest – August 26, 2013

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Anti-Welfare

February 8, 2013, 11:50am (report abuse)

Here come the Agent Orange whiners again.

All those who cry about it are just a bunch of welfare whores trying to get someone else to pay them to sit on their lazy backsides.

VOTE NO!

No More Freebies

February 9, 2013, 2:14am (report abuse)

Same old $hit. Bunch of scumbags trying to get on the gravy train.

YIPPEE - FREE MONEY!!!

GIMME! GIMME! GIMME!

This whole thing is nothing but a ripoff by a bunch of welfare whores.

VETERANS EXPOSED

February 13, 2013, 11:03am (report abuse)

Research continues, but as of August 2011, Hatfield and Vietnamese officials had located 28 dioxin hot spots, primarily where the Ranch Hand program was based. The most significant are at the Da Nang, Phu Cat and Bien Hoa airports that were used by the U.S. military.[ii] Safety standards for dioxin vary from country to country and by substance tested: food, air, water or soil. As most exposure to dioxin is through the food chain, the greatest concern for human exposure is the dioxin level in soil and sediment.

The general standard in most countries is that dioxin levels must not exceed 1,000 ppt (parts per trillion) TEQ (toxic equivalent) in soil and 100 ppt in sediments. Levels beyond that require immediate remediation. Average dioxin contamination in the soil of industrialized nations is less than 12 ppt.

In Vietnam, researchers found dioxin levels of up to 365,000 ppt at Da Nang, 262,000 ppt on the Bien Hoa base and 236,000 ppt in former storage areas on the Phu Cat base.

off shore waters contaminated

February 13, 2013, 11:09am (report abuse)

The American Association for the Advancement of Science commissioned a group of scientists, the Herbicide Assessment Commission (HAC), to go to Vietnam and make such a study.NO EVIDENCE DIOXINS LEFT THE LAND MASS!LIE!

Mangrove forests in Vietnam traditionally grow very fast. They trap silt and function to increase land area, extending the shoreline out into the water at a rapid rate. Now, due to American herbicide use, that natural role has been reversed.BLUE water sailors exposea to AO/HERBICIDES

SERVICE MEN ON SHIPS

February 13, 2013, 11:31am (report abuse)

Blue Water Navy Vietnam Veterans and Agent Orange Exposure

Released:May 20, 2011 by IOM.In part stated: The “Blue Water Navy”—those who served on deep water vessels—are not automatically eligible for disability benefits. In response to a growing concern from Blue Water Navy Vietnam veterans that they may have been exposed to Agent Orange during the war, the VA asked the IOM to examine whether the exposure to Agent Orange of Blue Water Navy veterans was similar to the exposure of other Vietnam veterans. Although the IOM found several plausible ways by which Blue Water Navy veterans could have been exposed to herbicides, there was not enough information for the IOM to determine whether Blue Water Navy personnel were or were not exposed to Agent Orange.IF THE SHIPS WERE NEAR THE COAST OF VIETNAM THEY WERE EXPOSED!

CDC STUDY

February 13, 2013, 11:39am (report abuse)

Selected Cancers Study

This was a population-based, case-control study to determine whether Vietnam veterans are at an increased risk of developing particular types of cancer that have been suggested as being possibly related to dioxin exposure. Specific cancers studied included non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, soft tissue sarcoma, Hodgkin's disease, nasopharyngeal cancer and primary liver cancer. An increased risk of non-Hodgkin's lymphoma was found among Vietnam veterans compared with men who did not serve in Vietnam, but no increased risk was identified for the other five cancers. The risk of having non-Hodgkin's lymphoma increased with length of service in Vietnam and was higher among men in the sea-based Navy than among other veterans. However little difference in risk was noted according to dates of service, type of unit, military region, or any other characteristics that may have been associated with the use of the “Agent Orange” herbicide formulation.

***

February 13, 2013, 12:00pm (report abuse)

The Fifteen Herbicides Were Used in Vietnam

PURPLE: A formulation of 2,4,-D and 2,4,5,-T used between 1962 and 1964

GREEN: Contained 2,4,5-T and was used 1962-1964

PINK: Contained 2,4,5-T and was used 1962-1964

ORANGE: A formulation of 2,4,-D and 2,4,5-T used between 1965 and 1970

WHITE: A formulation of Picloram and 2,4,

BLUE: Contained cacodylic acid

ORANGE II: A formulation of 2,4,D and 2,4,5-T used in 1968 and 1969 (also sometimes referred to as "Super Orange")

DINOXOL: A formulation of 2,4,D and 2,4,5-T. Small quantities were tested in Vietnam between 1962 and 1964

TRINOXOL: Contained 2,4,5-T. Small quantities tested in Vietnam 1962-1964

BROMACIL

DIQUAT

TANDEX

MONURON

DIURON

DALAPON

Small quantities of all of the above were tested in Vietnam, 1962-1964

boats on water with herbicdes spraying

February 13, 2013, 12:26pm (report abuse)

Estimates within the Mission of vaporized herbicide drift range from only negligible drift to distances of up to 10 kilometers and more. Ten kilometers and more. More than six miles. In essence, troops operating more than six miles from defoliation operations could find themselves, their water and their food doused with chemical agents including dioxinlaced Agent Orange.

More than four months later on March 23 1968 Gen. A.R. Brownfield then Army Chief of Staff sent a message to all senior U S advisors in the four Corps Tactical Zones of Vietnam Brownfield ordered that helicopter spray operations will not be conducted when ground temperatures are greater that 85 (degrees) Fahrenheit and wind speed in excess of 10 mph. But the concern was not for any troops operating in the areas of spraying as was evident in the memo.Even soin the six years prior to thisthere was no wind drift policy.NOTE THIS MESSAGE WAS ONLY FOR HEIICOPTER SPRAYING.HERBICIDES WERE SPRAYED BY AIRCRAFT AND BOATS ALSO!

clocks ticking

February 13, 2013, 12:32pm (report abuse)

Considered to be a dioxin "hot spot," the Da Nang Airport will be decontaminated in the summer, said Nguyen Van Rinh, chairman of the Vietnam Association for Victims of Agent Orange/Dioxin .He added it cost an estimated $35 million to detoxify the whole airport.The US provided $1.69 million for a year long project to assess invironmental impact and draft plans to clean up the airport.

The US army used around 80 million liters of toxic chemicals, mainly Agent Orange.Meanwhile, two other dioxin "hot spots" in Vietnam former US air bases at Bien Hoa and Phu Cat have yet to be cleansed.

Ngo Quang Xuan, Vice Chairman of the National Assembly’s Committee for Foreign Affairs, and Co-Chair of the Vietnam-US Dialogue Group on Agent Orange/Dioxin, has sent a letter to US and other donors to seek $300 million for a 10-year plan to detoxify 28 dioxin hot spots across Vietnam.Guess that should take care of our A.O.problems as most of our Vietnam vets will be dead.

HERBICIDES IN COASTAL WATER

February 13, 2013, 1:07pm (report abuse)

Defoliation occurred along waterways, roads, railroads, and other transportation routes to lower the risk of ambush. Extensive spraying was also conducted in the Mekong River delta area around the coastal mangrove swamps, also with the goal of reducing protective cover for the enemy. Operation Ranch Hand peaked in 1967 when 1.7 million acres of Vietnam and Laos were sprayed, 85% for defoliation and 15% for crop destruction.

A small proportion of the herbicides was applied by other means, such as backpacks, spray trucks, helicopters, and boats. The US Army Chemical Corps ground personnel sprayed herbicides from trucks or backpacks around base perimeters; other Army personnel sprayed herbicides from helicopters (Darrow, 1969) and directly from drums along waterways .

The EPA's 1994 Draft Reassessment of Dioxin concluded that there is no safe level of exposure to dioxin even at extremely low levels

AND EVENTUALLY THE SOUTH CHINA SEA

February 13, 2013, 1:18pm (report abuse)

Agent Orange/dioxin residues in Vietnam can be and are being cleaned up, using well-known and cost-effective methods. Additional resources would allow scale-up and expansion of these best practices to all existing “hot spots.” Dioxin-contaminated herbicides were sprayed over about 5 million acres of upland and mangrove forests and about 500,000 acres of crops -- a total area the size of Massachusetts, about 24 percent of southern Vietnam. Some areas of Laos and Cambodia along the Vietnam border were also sprayed. Dioxin is not water-soluble. Hatfield Consultants (Canada) has found “hot spots” of high dioxin concentrations in areas where the dioxin-contaminated herbicides were stored, leaked or spilled. These are mostly on and around former U.S. military installations. Dioxin leached into the soil or was transported by runoff into the sediments of nearby rivers, lakes and ponds.

IOM

February 13, 2013, 1:35pm (report abuse)

"THE IOM HAS IDENTIFIED SEVERAL PLAUSIBLE ROUTES THE BLUE WATER NAVY COULD HAVE BEEN EXPOSED.INHALATION FOLLOWED BY MUCOCILIARY TRANSPORT TOSHIPS AT SEA.DERMAL CONTACT IF EXPOSED TO SPRAY DIRECTLY OR FROM HERBICIDE DUMPS.TCDD COULD CONTAMINATE MARINE WATERS OFF THE COAST OF SOUTH VIETNAM.BLUE WATER SHIPS MAY HAVE DISTILLED THOSE MARINE WATERS,SO TCDD CONTAMINATION OF POTABE WATER ABOARD THOSE SHIPS WAS POSSIABLE"

HERBICIDES IN THE OCEAN

February 13, 2013, 1:48pm (report abuse)

Mangroves are also special plants because they have membranes that internally filter water, thus they can survive in brackish or salt water. When mangrove leaves fall, they decompose and support a wide variety of invertebrates (Ibid). Local Vietnamese farmers also often utilize mangrove forests for various seafood, tannin for leather, and charcoal for cooking.

Once herbicidal spraying began in Vietnam, the mangroves and the ecosystem it supported crumbled. Typical mangrove forests are home to about 80 species of birds, and after the defoliation program only a handful were present.Furthermore, the wide scope of aquatic life usually found in these environments were near non- existent. "One species of mollusk may have been placed in danger of extinction by Agent Orange. The number and variety of planktonic and benthic animals...as well as fish eggs, also declined.

Mangroves were barriers between land and sea.

IOM

February 13, 2013, 2:48pm (report abuse)

An unknown fraction of aerial spraying occurred close to or over water—either rivers or coastal zones. Rivers were targeted because they served as transportation pathways. III Corps Area, north of the Mekong Delta, was the most heavily sprayed area of Vietnam (IOM, 1994). That area includes mangrove swamps and wetland soils, which, as described earlier, are organically rich and subject to seasonal inundation. Agent Orange could enter water courses by runoff from soil and vegetation from the sprayed areas. Agent Orange could also enter water courses from the spraying of river banks by the Brown Water Navy. The amount of Agent Orange applied to the river banks is uncertain, but it was less than 5% of the total amount used in Vietnam (Young, 2009). The committee assumed that most herbicide was released in air by aerial spraying and entered the water either by direct spraying over waterways or deposition of spray drift or indirectly by runoff from soil or vegetation.

1962-1971

February 13, 2013, 3:01pm (report abuse)

The herbicides were sprayed by the US Air Force flying C-123s using the call sign "Hades". The planes were fitted with specially developed spray tanks with a capacity of 1,000 US gallons (4 m3) of herbicides. A plane sprayed a swath of land that was 80 meters wide and 16 km (~10 miles) long in about 4½ minutes at a rate of about 3 US gallons per acre (3 m3/km2).[3] Sorties usually consisted of 3 – 5 planes flying side by side. 95% of the herbicides and defoliants used in the war were sprayed by the US Air Force as part of Operation Ranch Hand. The remaining 5% were sprayed by the US Chemical Corps and other military branches as well as the RVN by hand sprayers, spray trucks, helicopters and boats primarily around US military installations.[4]All the herbicides sprayed by Ranch Hand had traces of 2,4 -D and 2,4,5-T AGENT ORANGE due to cross contamination from useing the same spray equipt(PLANES).All herbicides sprayed by Ranch Hand from 1962-1971 contained dioxin!

HERE WE GO AGAIN

February 13, 2013, 3:06pm (report abuse)

This abandonment of gulf war veterans 90-91 must gain attention now. We are loosing veterans in the past 2 weeks I have obits on 23 veterans of the Gulf War 90-91 they are dying because of lack of appropriate actions by the VA. It starts with the research that clearly shows PHYSIOLOGICAL Damage from all the exposures that occurred in the most toxic war environmental ever.Dont let the AGENT ORANGE debacle happen again!

DISGRACEFUL

February 13, 2013, 3:27pm (report abuse)

All Vietnam Veterans, went to war because our President, and legislators had us believe that our country was in danger. spraying chemicals over every living thing to help aide the war effort was in the best interest of the people selling the chemicals.. Today, Secretary of State Clinton, among many others want the U.S. to pay benefits to Vietnam for the damages inflicted on land. and civilians for the collateral damages caused by spraying, but China Beach R&R Center is now a Resort Area. I think somewhere in the vastness of time our Political Machine needs to reaccess their priorities, and take care of the veterans who have suffered so long, in quiet despair. It’s time for our country to take some responsibility for those of us who put ourselves in harms way, and have ask very little in return; And when we did ask, were denied benefits or stalled until it didn’t matter, anymore

WHY?

February 13, 2013, 3:34pm (report abuse)

Many children of Vietnam veterans conceived during and after the war are also infected by Agent Orange dioxin. This is the second generation.

Some members of the armed forces are recognized by the Veterans Administration . Members who served in the Vietnam War are those recognized as having boots-on-ground; as well as brown water forces.

Blue water forces (Navy) and airmen (Air Force), never having boots-on-ground are not recognized. Our legislators need to enact provision for recognition of all armed forces who served in this war.

This provision must include children of these veterans, and may need to go as far as to include grandchildren.

Men and women who were in the armed forces of all military branches who served in- country Vietnam or at sea and in the air in the combat zone were exposed to the deadly herbicide, Agent Orange dioxin.

Some of these service members, unbeknown to them, may have passed on in child conception the effects of the infecting chemical dioxin.

Anti-Welfare

February 13, 2013, 3:37pm (report abuse)

MAKE SURE EVERY VIETNAM VETERAN IS TREATED EQUALLY!

REPEAL THE AGENT ORANGE ACT NOW!!!

It's time to throw this entire welfare scam in the trash. Far too much money is being thrown down this rat hole. The "agent orange made me sick" whine is BULL$HIT. It is all about giving lazy, no-account veterans more welfare payments. There is no longer any pride in being a veteran. Veterans have become just another bunch of greedy scumbags, scammers and welfare whores.

END ALL AGENT ORANGE COMPENSATION!

No more blanket welfare payments. Repeal this welfare giveaway and put an end to the perceived unfairness in the whole thing. Stop paying this welfare to anyone.

Tell your representatives and senators to put an end to this veteran welfare scheme. Remind them that their job is to take care of ALL the people, not just one small group of greedy welfare whores who want more and more welfare.

NO MORE WELFARE!

REPEAL THE AGENT ORANGE ACT NOW!!!

NO SAFE LEVEL OF EXPOSURE!

February 13, 2013, 3:41pm (report abuse)

The EPA's 1994 Draft Reassessment of Dioxin concluded that there is no safe level of exposure to dioxin even at extremely low levels

HERBICIDE IN THE WATER

February 13, 2013, 3:52pm (report abuse)

On 24 May 1968, Lt. Col. Emmett Rucker, Jr., pilot; Maj. James L. Shanks, co-pilot; and Sgt. Herbert E. Schmidt, flight engineer comprised the crew of a UC123B Provider, that departed Bien Hao Airbase as the #2 aircraft in a flight of 6. The flight was conducting an Operation Ranch Hand herbicide mission over the extreme southern province of South Vietnam. As the flight made a spraying pass, the Provider was struck by hostile fire near the coastline and was observed to crash into the South China Sea.

The location of the crash site was off the extreme southern tip of South Vietnam approximately 2 miles south of the shoreline, 10 miles southeast of Duong Kec, 13 miles south of Nan Can and 15 miles east-southeast of Xom Rach Tau, Minh Hai Provinces, South Vietnam

KNOWN dumping of herbicides

February 13, 2013, 4:10pm (report abuse)

MACV Fixed Wing Aircraft Herbicide Incidents. 15 October 1981

The Army also verified that some herbicide was jettisoned over water near the Vietnamese coast (Department of the Army, 1981).

On the basis of the revised HERBS files, Stellman et al. (2003) reported that 42 missions, totaling about 120,000 L of herbicide, are known to have resulted in emergency herbicide dumps. (November 1, 2010). The Army also verified that some herbicide was jettisoned over water near the Vietnamese coast.

I O M VALIDATION

February 13, 2013, 5:04pm (report abuse)

The Institute of Medicine (IOM) report released in May 2011 validated the 2002 Royal Australian Navy report that demonstrates that the desalinization process used on Australian and U.S. Navy ships off the coast of Vietnam magnified the dioxin exposure contained in diminutive amounts of the Agent Orange herbicide in the water.

SHAMEFUL

February 13, 2013, 5:12pm (report abuse)

The veterans have been treated in a very disgraceful manner and when I look at how long it has taken the government to approve all the AO illnesses and the continual denial of benefits and game playing I am just disgusted. Hope all turns out well for those still waiting and want you all to know how very appreciative I and many others are for the sacrifices you have made for the USA.

IT GOT IN THE WATER

February 13, 2013, 5:26pm (report abuse)

Former Mixing and Loading Area (MLA) – Located to the northeast of

the main runway, approximately 150 m from the current international

airport. At this site, Agent Orange and other herbicides were loaded on

C-123 airplanes, helicopters and other aircraft, as well as other

devices (e.g., backpack sprayers). Planes returning from

spray missions were also washed and serviced in this area, leading to

spills of herbicides into the surrounding lands and drainage ditches, and

ultimately into Sen Lake and other local waterbodies;DIOXIN IS FOUND TODAY IN THE DRAINAGE DITCH TO SEN LAKE AND IN THE DANANG STORM WATER SEWER THAT LEADS FROM SEN LAKE INTO DANANG BAY WHICH IS OPEN TO THE SEA.DANANG HARBOR WAS ALARGE SEPTIC TANK OF SEWAGE AND DIOXINS.THE DISTANCE FROM THE BASE TO HARBOR IS 5/8 OF A MILE.DURING MONSOON SEASON,FISH EASILY MIGRATE BETWEEN SEN LAKE AND THE HARBOR.INADDITION THE HERBICIDES SPRAYED IN THE HILLS AND BASE GET WASHED OUT TO SEA VIA DANANG HARBOR.

I O M

February 13, 2013, 5:35pm (report abuse)

THE INSTITUTE OF MEDICINE CONCLUDED THAT WITH ATMOSPHERIC DEPOSITION,THERE WAS OPPORTUNITY FOR HERBICIDES APPLIED BY AERIAL SPRAYING TO ENTER THE INLAND AND COASTAL WATERS OF VIETNAN,IN ADDITION TO THE HERBICIDES APPLIED DIRECTLY TO THE WATER.THE IOM CONCLUDED THAT IT COULD NOT STATE WITH CERTAINITY THAT EXPOSURES TO THE BLUE WATER NAVY PERSONNEL AS A GROUP,WERE QUALITATIVELY DIFFERNT FROM THEIR BROWN WATER NAVY AND GROUND TROOP COUNTERPARTS,THIS REPORT WAS MANDATED BY CONGRESS.JUST MORE OF THE TRUE FACTS,BACKED BY A SCIENTIFIC COMMITTEE

I O M REPORT

February 13, 2013, 5:46pm (report abuse)

THE IOM REPORT RELEASED IN 2011.IOM REPORTS THAT THE HERB FILES HAVE IDENTIFIED 40 CASES OF HERBICIDE DUMPING ALONE.THE IOM HAS IDENTIFIED SEVERAL PLAUSIBLE ROUTES THE BLUE WATER NAVY COULD HAVE BEEN EXPOSED.INHALATION FOLLOWED BY MUCOCILIARY TRANSPORT TOSHIPS AT SEA.DERMAL CONTACT IF EXPOSED TO SPRAY DIRECTLY OR FROM HERBICIDE DUMPS.TCDD COULD CONTAMINATE MARINE WATERS OFF THE COAST OF SOUTH VIETNAM.BLUE WATER SHIPS MAY HAVE DISTILLED THOSE MARINE WATERS,SO TCDD CONTAMINATION OF POTABE WATER ABOARD THOSE SHIPS WAS POSSIABLE.THIS COULD RESULT IN INHALATION EXPOSURE TO TCDD IN WATER VAPOR DURING SHOWERING OR OTHER USES OF WATER SUCH AS COOKING AND FOOD INGESTION.THESE ARE SOME OF THE FINDINGS OF THE INSTITUTE OF MEDICINE AN ASSOCIATED AGENCY OF THE NATIONAL ACADEMY OF SCIENCES MANDATED BY CONGRESS.

***

February 13, 2013, 5:50pm (report abuse)

MAKE WAY FOR THE ANTI-VET ANDY JOHNSON!

***

February 13, 2013, 7:30pm (report abuse)

Same old crap from the whiners. Bluewater navy was not exposed but they want on the gravy train.

Too bad for them no one else believes it.

Bunch of welfare whores trying to get to the trough.

HOHUM

February 14, 2013, 10:19am (report abuse)

Hi Andy ! RECOGNIZED YOUR AKA'S

Anti-Welfare

February 14, 2013, 10:41am (report abuse)

MAKE SURE EVERY VIETNAM VETERAN IS TREATED EQUALLY!

REPEAL THE AGENT ORANGE ACT NOW!!!

It's time to throw this entire welfare scam in the trash. Far too much money is being thrown down this rat hole. The "agent orange made me sick" whine is BULL$HIT. It is all about giving lazy, no-account veterans more welfare payments. There is no longer any pride in being a veteran. Veterans have become just another bunch of greedy scumbags, scammers and welfare whores.

END ALL AGENT ORANGE COMPENSATION!

No more blanket welfare payments. Repeal this welfare giveaway and put an end to the perceived unfairness in the whole thing. Stop paying this welfare to anyone.

Tell your representatives and senators to put an end to this veteran welfare scheme. Remind them that their job is to take care of ALL the people, not just one small group of greedy welfare whores who want more and more welfare.

NO MORE WELFARE!

REPEAL THE AGENT ORANGE ACT NOW!!!

SUPPORT FOR THIS BILL

February 14, 2013, 11:19am (report abuse)

TMC Members

The following are the associations of The Military Coalition. Air Force Association (AFA)

Air Force Sergeants Association (AFSA)

Air Force Women Officers Associated (AFWOA)

AMVETS (American Veterans)

Army Aviation Association of America (AAAA)

AMSUS, the Society of Federal Health Professionals

Association of the United States Army (AUSA)

Association of the United States Navy (AUSN)

Commissioned Officers Association (COA) of the United States Public Health Service, Inc.

CWOA, US Coast Guard

Enlisted Association of the National Guard of the United States (EANGUS)

HR 543 SUPPORT CON'T

February 14, 2013, 11:28am (report abuse)

Fleet Reserve Association (FRA)

Gold Star Wives of America (GSW)

Jewish War Veterans of the United States of America (JWV)

Marine Corps League (MCL)

Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America

Marine Corps Reserve Association (MCRA)

Military Chaplains Association of the United States of America (MCA)

Military Officers Association of America(MOAA)

Military Order of the Purple Heart

National Association for Uniformed Services (NAUS)

National Guard Association of the United States (NGAUS)

National Military Family Association NMFA

Naval Enlisted Reserve Association NERA

Non Commissioned Officers Association NCOA

Reserve Enlisted Association REA

Reserve Officers Association ROA

Society of Medical Consultants to the Armed Forces SMCAF

The Retired Enlisted Association TREA

United States Army Warrant Officers Association USAWOA

USCG Chief Petty Officers Association CPOA

Veterans of Foreign Wars VFW

Vietnam Veterans of America VAA

Wounded Warrior Project WWP

OK?

February 14, 2013, 7:35pm (report abuse)

What held this Bill from being released from Committee during the last 112th Congress was the lack of a CBO Score – a cost figure provided by the Congressional Budget Office. A preliminary cost estimate was finally released the second week of October, 2012, too late in the session for any action to be taken on the legislation before that Congress adjourned. That preliminary cost estimate should be finalized by the CBO before the end of February also.

OK?

February 14, 2013, 7:39pm (report abuse)

The above copied from bluewaternavy.com

Frank123

February 14, 2013, 8:16pm (report abuse)

Hre we go again and rightfully so maybe this time this terrible wrong will be corrected

***

February 14, 2013, 11:43pm (report abuse)

Same old $hit. Bunch of scumbags trying to get on the gravy train.

YIPPEE - FREE MONEY!!!

GIMME! GIMME! GIMME!

This whole thing is nothing but a ripoff by a bunch of welfare whores.

BY VETS

February 15, 2013, 9:01am (report abuse)

VETS

October 17, 2011, 10:28pm

Keeping the Lid on The Congressional Pressure Cooker

www.veteranstoday./2011/10/10/keeping-the-lid-on-the-congressional-pressure-cooker/

by Ed Mattson

Many veterans have simply given up in the battle over Agent Orange. With so many no longer alive there are fewer voices to tell the stories. As I have been writing, this IS NOT an issue confined to Vietnam as we all know. Agent Orange was used in many countries and local communities,..."

With Agent Orange legislation the focus of committee hearings in both the Senate and House, this is not the time to cut and run. This is the time to keep the lid on the pressure cooker and not let up. As I said in Friday’s column, the government and the chemical companies devised a game plan early-on to divide the enemy (the US veterans, civilian populations, the government contractors, and the USO volunteers), keep each isolated as much as possible, and wait out the inevitable time period when our numbers die off.

Anti-Welfare

February 15, 2013, 9:33am (report abuse)

MAKE SURE EVERY VIETNAM VETERAN IS TREATED EQUALLY!

REPEAL THE AGENT ORANGE ACT NOW!!!

It's time to throw this entire welfare scam in the trash. Far too much money is being thrown down this rat hole. The "agent orange made me sick" whine is BULL$HIT. It is all about giving lazy, no-account veterans more welfare payments. There is no longer any pride in being a veteran. Veterans have become just another bunch of greedy scumbags, scammers and welfare whores.

END ALL AGENT ORANGE COMPENSATION!

No more blanket welfare payments. Repeal this welfare giveaway and put an end to the perceived unfairness in the whole thing. Stop paying this welfare to anyone.

Tell your representatives and senators to put an end to this veteran welfare scheme. Remind them that their job is to take care of ALL the people, not just one small group of greedy welfare whores who want more and more welfare.

NO MORE WELFARE!

REPEAL THE AGENT ORANGE ACT NOW!!!

IOM

February 15, 2013, 11:03am (report abuse)

THE IOM HAS IDENTIFIED SEVERAL PLAUSIBLE ROUTES THE BLUE WATER NAVY COULD HAVE BEEN EXPOSED.INHALATION FOLLOWED BY MUCOCILIARY TRANSPORT TOSHIPS AT SEA.DERMAL CONTACT IF EXPOSED TO SPRAY DIRECTLY OR FROM HERBICIDE DUMPS.TCDD COULD CONTAMINATE MARINE WATERS OFF THE COAST OF SOUTH VIETNAM.BLUE WATER SHIPS MAY HAVE DISTILLED THOSE MARINE WATERS,SO TCDD CONTAMINATION OF POTABE WATER ABOARD THOSE SHIPS WAS POSSIABLE.THIS COULD RESULT IN INHALATION EXPOSURE TO TCDD IN WATER VAPOR DURING SHOWERING OR OTHER USES OF WATER SUCH AS COOKING AND FOOD INGESTION.THESE ARE SOME OF THE FINDINGS OF THE INSTITUTE OF MEDICINE AN ASSOCIATED AGENCY OF THE NATIONAL ACADEMY OF SCIENCES MANDATED BY CONGRESS.

***

February 15, 2013, 1:35pm (report abuse)

Same old $hit. Bunch of scumbags trying to get on the gravy train.

YIPPEE - FREE MONEY!!!

GIMME! GIMME! GIMME!

This whole thing is nothing but a ripoff by a bunch of welfare whores.

ENTITLED

February 15, 2013, 5:31pm (report abuse)

ON 24 MAY 1968,THREE CREW MEMBERS OF A UC 123 PROVIDER THAT DEPARTED BIEN HAO AIRBASE.(AS THE #2 AIRCRAFT IN A FLIGHT OF 6)THE FLIGHT WAS CONDUCTING A OPERATION RANCH HAND HERBICIDE MISSION OVER THE EXTREME SOUTHERN PROVIDENCE OF SOUTH VIETNAM.AS THE PROVIDER MADE A SPRAYING PASS,IT WAS STRUCK BY HOSTILE FIRE NEAR THE COAST LINE AND WAS OBSERVED TO CRASH INTO THE SOUTH CHINA SEA.ONE BODY WAS RECOVERED BY SAR ,ABOUT TWO MILES SOUTH OF THE SHORE LINE.THIS WAS NOT ON THE LIST OF MACV HERBICIDE INCIDENTS,AS I AM SURE THERE WERE MANY OTHER INCIDENTS.YET NO HERBICIDES EVER LEFT THE LAND MASS OF VIETNAM.NOT BY WIND,NOT BY RAIN,NOT BY RIVER,NOT BY PURPOSELY JETTISONING OR DUMPING.THIS BELIEF IS HAS KILLED THOUSANDS OF VETERANS THAT WENT WHEN THEIR COUNTRY CALLED.THE SAD PART IS THAT MOST COULD OF BEEN ALIVE TODAY IF THEY WERE PROVIDED THE HEALTH CARE THEY WERE ENTITLED !!! AND I DID SAY ENTITLED

HERBICIDES WASHED INTO THE SEA

February 15, 2013, 5:53pm (report abuse)

'Operation Ranch Hand' was based out of the Bien Hoa Air Base 1966–1970 for operations in the Mekong Delta region where the U.S. Navy patrol boats were vulnerable to attack from the undergrowth at the waters edge. The storage, mixing, loading, washing and parking ramp was just off the inside taxiway between the Hot Cargo Ramp and the Control Tower. For operations along the central coast and the Ho Chi Minh Trail regions Ranch Hand operated out of the Da Nang Air Base 1964–71. Other bases of operation included Phu Cat AB (1968–1970) Ton San Nhut AB (1962–66), Nha Trang AB (1968–69) Phan Rang AB (1970–72), and Tuy Hoa AB (1971–72).[12] Other bases were also used as temporary staging areas for Ranch Hand. The Da Nang, Bien Hoa and Phu Cat Air bases are still heavily contaminated with dioxin from the herbicides and have been placed a priority list for containment and clean-up by the Vietnamese government.5/8 MILE TO DANANG HARBOR FROM THE AIRBASE WHICH AS THE VA STATES:ITS OPEN TO THE SEA.

AINT RIGHT!

February 15, 2013, 7:29pm (report abuse)

This is not a 45 year old problem. We are seeing it repeated with the veterans of Desert Storm, Iraq and Afghanistan. The Department of Veterans Affairs (DVA) is setting a dangerous precedent if they are allowed to randomly choose a group of veterans and suspend their eligibility for benefits that are available to all other veterans of the same conflict. The DVA is already able to deny treatment for diseases and injuries which occurred during Active Duty, even when the cause is known - the claims for service-connected disability are simply ignored and not acknowledged by the DVA. In the case of the Blue Water Navy veterans of Vietnam, the DVA has absolutely (by their own admission) no logical, medical or scientific reason to support their actions. In fact, the medical and scientific data supports the inclusion of the offshore personnel in same Health Care and compensation benefits given to all other veterans of the Vietnam War.

LET ME SELL YOU A BRIDGE

February 15, 2013, 7:40pm (report abuse)

ITS OKAY TO SPEND MILLIONS ON FORMER ENEMY TROOPS AND CIVILIANS, REPARATIONS TO THE VIETNAM GOVT,CLEANING UP AO HOT SPOTS ALL OVER VIETNAM YET NO CONTAMINATION FROM THE AREA COULD HAVE GOT INTO THE HARBOR OR OFFSHORE.ONLY A VERY STUPID PERSON WOULD BUY THAT STORY.

THANK YOU ALL

February 15, 2013, 7:48pm (report abuse)

The veterans have been treated in a very disgraceful manner and when I look at how long it has taken the government to approve all the AO illnesses and the continual denial of benefits and game playing I am just disgusted. Hope all turns out well for those still waiting and want you all to know how very appreciative I and many others are for the sacrifices you have made for the USA.

SOME GAVE ALL

February 15, 2013, 8:06pm (report abuse)

The majority of the American people, no doubt, are unaware of what was and what is now when it comes to caring for those who served in time of war. It is time to stand up and be counted. Do we who served our Country with pride and honor have to beg for help in our time of need? Are we just pawns and sacrificial lambs to be toyed with? Are veterans in need to be sacrificed? Is our Country broken? To help our veterans is not a hand-out, it is an obligation.

“We must care for those who have fought the Nation’s battles”. “Fulfill America’s promise to care for those who have borne the battle”. Abe Lincoln

“A Nation, that forgot its fighters and defenders will itself be forgotten”. Calvin Coolidge

If we truly believe in these quotations of honorable men, then stand up America. Write or call your Congressman and Senator, urge to pass the bills to care for veterans. THE COST OF WAR DOESNT END WHEN THE LAST BULLET IS FIRED.

SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH OUR PRIORTIES

February 15, 2013, 8:23pm (report abuse)

On June 16, 2010, members of the U.S.-Vietnam Dialogue Group on Agent Orange/Dioxin unveiled a comprehensive 10-year Declaration and Plan of Action to address the toxic legacy of Agent Orange and other herbicides in Vietnam. The Plan of Action was released as an Aspen Institute publication and calls upon the U.S. and Vietnamese governments to join with other governments, foundations, businesses, and nonprofits in a partnership to clean up dioxin "hot spots" in Vietnam and to expand humanitarian services for people with disabilities there. On September 16, 2010, Senator Patrick Leahy (D-VT) acknowledged the work of the Dialogue Group by releasing a statement on the floor of the United States Senate. The statement urges the U.S. government to take the Plan of Action's recommendations into account in developing a multi-year plan of activities to address the Agent Orange/dioxin legacy.LETS HELP OUR BLUE WATER SAILORS AND MARINES!

DIOXIN IN ALL HERBICIDES

February 15, 2013, 9:03pm (report abuse)

The herbicides were sprayed by the US Air Force flying C-123s using especially developed spray tanks with a capacity of 1,000 US gallons of herbicides. A plane sprayed a swath of land that was 10 miles long in about 4½ minutes at a rate of about 3 US gallons per acre .] Sorties usually consisted of 3 – 5 planes flying side by side. 95% of the herbicides and defoliants used in the war were sprayed by the US Air Force as part of Operation Ranch Hand. The remaining 5% were sprayed by the US Chemical Corps and other military branches as well as the RVN by hand sprayers, spray trucks, helicopters and boats.All the herbicides sprayed by Ranch Hand had traces of 2,4 -D and 2,4,5-T AGENT ORANGE due to cross contamination from useing the same spray equipt(PLANES).All herbicides sprayed by Ranch Hand from 1962-1971 contained dioxin!

Agent Orange 1.77 to 40 ppm

Agent Blue 32.8 to 45 ppm

Agent Red 65.6 ppm

Agent White 65.6 ppm

Silvex 1 to 70 ppm

2,4,5-T 0.1 ppm or less

SUPER AO ?

COASTAL=SEA=NAVY SHIPS

February 15, 2013, 9:24pm (report abuse)

An unknown fraction of aerial spraying occurred close to or over water—either rivers or coastal zones. Rivers were targeted because they served as transportation pathways. III Corps Area, north of the Mekong Delta, was the most heavily sprayed area of Vietnam (IOM, 1994). That area includes mangrove swamps and wetland soils, which, as described earlier, are organically rich and subject to seasonal inundation. Agent Orange could enter water courses by runoff from soil and vegetation from the sprayed areas. Agent Orange could also enter water courses from the spraying of river banks by the Brown Water Navy. The amount of Agent Orange applied to the river banks is uncertain, but it was less than 5% of the total amount used in Vietnam (Young, 2009). The committee assumed that most herbicide was released in air by aerial spraying and entered the water either by direct spraying over waterways or deposition of spray drift or indirectly by runoff from soil or vegetation.THE TRUTH

DOD REPORT

February 15, 2013, 9:32pm (report abuse)

ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF DEFENSE :HERBICIDE STATUS REPORT,PAGE 5,11 FEB 1982.DOD SPECIALISTS RESEARCHING RECORDS FOUND:THERE WERE 159 ABORTED MISSIONS,35 EMERGENCY RELEASES OF HERBICIDES OF WHICH 10 WERE A.O.SOME WERE AT HIGH ALTITUDE(FAR DRIFT)OTHERS AT SEA(SHIPS)OR REMOTE AREAS CLOSE TO ENEMY TARGETS

HOHUM

February 15, 2013, 9:42pm (report abuse)

On September 9, 1988 Dr. James R. Clary sent a letter to Senator Tom Daschle. Dr. Clary was a research scientist with the Chemical Weapons Branch of the US Air Force during the period 1962-1965. Dr. Clary’s comments in the above noted letter follow:

“When we (military scientists) initiated the herbicide program in the 1960’s, we were aware of the potential for damage due to dioxin contamination in the herbicide. We were even aware that the ‘military formulation’ had a higher dioxin concentration than the ‘civilian’ version due to the lower cost and speed of manufacture. However, because the material was to be used on the ‘enemy’, none of us were overly concerned. We never considered a scenario in which our own personnel would become contaminated with the herbicide. And, if we had, we would have expected our own government to give assistance to veterans so contaminated.”

HERBICIDES

February 15, 2013, 9:49pm (report abuse)

The Fifteen Herbicides Were Used in Vietnam

PURPLE: A formulation of 2,4,-D and 2,4,5,-T used between 1962 and 1964

GREEN: Contained 2,4,5-T and was used 1962-1964

PINK: Contained 2,4,5-T and was used 1962-1964

ORANGE: A formulation of 2,4,-D and 2,4,5-T used between 1965 and 1970

WHITE: A formulation of Picloram and 2,4,

BLUE: Contained cacodylic acid

ORANGE II: A formulation of 2,4,D and 2,4,5-T used in 1968 and 1969 (also sometimes referred to as "Super Orange")

DINOXOL: A formulation of 2,4,D and 2,4,5-T. Small quantities were tested in Vietnam between 1962 and 1964

TRINOXOL: Contained 2,4,5-T. Small quantities tested in Vietnam 1962-1964

BROMACIL

DIQUAT

TANDEX

MONURON

DIURON

DALAPON

Small quantities of all of the above were tested in Vietnam, 1962-1964

***

February 15, 2013, 11:19pm (report abuse)

Same old $hit. Bunch of scumbags trying to get on the gravy train.

YIPPEE - FREE MONEY!!!

GIMME! GIMME! GIMME!

This whole thing is nothing but a ripoff by a bunch of welfare entitlement whores.

MOST COMMON LIES

February 16, 2013, 7:57am (report abuse)

No veterans tested high for dioxin-LIE!Dioxin levels in Vietnam vets not unusual.LIE! BWN not exposed to herbicides in Vietnam.LIE!No authoritative or qualified scientific research.LIE!VA claims not lawful.LIE!Dioxin effects not demonstrated in humans.LIE!Herbicides never sprayed in coastal waters.LIE!No evidence dioxins ever left the landmass.LIE!All herbicides sent to Vietnam by ships.LIE!All herbicide spraying done by C-123's.LIE!Bases didnt use AO for spraying.LIE!U.S. soldiers didnt handle herbicides.LIE!Soldiers not in areas sprayed.LIE!Planes not contaminated by herbicides.LIE!You dont have the right to file a claim.LIE!Wind drift is nonsense.LIE!Only Agent Orange contained DIOXIN.LIE!

WHATS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE?

February 16, 2013, 8:15am (report abuse)

The Vietnamese government has long sought U.S. assistance. Although the United States has

provided scientific and technical support in the past, it has repeatedly denied any legal liability to

provide assistance. It has questioned Vietnam’s assertions about the extent of the environmental

and health problems attributed to Agent Orange and dioxin. As a result, there is a growing

possibility of friction between the two governments over the issue of Agent Orange.

Recently, the United States has shown a greater willingness to cooperate on some aspects of the

issue. In both fiscal years 2007 and 2009, Congress appropriated $3 million for dioxin removal

and health care facilities in Da Nang.

CONTINUED

February 16, 2013, 8:21am (report abuse)

Considered to be a dioxin "hot spot," the Da Nang Airport will be decontaminated in the summer, said Nguyen Van Rinh, chairman of the Vietnam Association for Victims of Agent Orange/Dioxin .He added it cost an estimated $35 million to detoxify the whole airport.The US provided $1.69 million for a year long project to assess invironmental impact and draft plans to clean up the airport.

The US army used around 80 million liters of toxic chemicals, mainly Agent Orange.Meanwhile, two other dioxin "hot spots" in Vietnam former US air bases at Bien Hoa and Phu Cat have yet to be cleansed.

Ngo Quang Xuan, Vice Chairman of the National Assembly’s Committee for Foreign Affairs, and Co-Chair of the Vietnam-US Dialogue Group on Agent Orange/Dioxin, has sent a letter to US and other donors to seek $300 million for a 10-year plan to detoxify 28 dioxin hot spots across Vietnam.Guess that should take care of our A.O.problems as most of our Vietnam vets will be dead.

CONTINUED

February 16, 2013, 8:34am (report abuse)

Over the past five years, Congress has appropriated about $49 million for environmental remediation and about $11 million to help people living with disabilities in Vietnam regardless of cause. Experts have identified three former U.S. air bases — in Danang in central Vietnam and the southern locations of Bien Hoa and Phu Cat — as hotspots where Agent Orange was mixed, stored and loaded onto planes.

The U.S. military dumped some 20 million gallons of Agent Orange and other herbicides on South Vietnam.A

The defoliant decimated about 5 million acres of forest — and another 500,000 acres of crops.

The war ended on April 30, 1975, when northern Communist forces seized control of Saigon, the U.S.-backed former capital of South Vietnam. The country was then reunified under a one-party Communist government. Following years of poverty and isolation, Vietnam shook hands with the U.S. in 1995 and normalized diplomatic relations. IN CONCLUSION:WE HAVE VETERANS BEGGING FOR HELP.SHAMEFUL!

CONTINUED

February 16, 2013, 8:57am (report abuse)

Afghanistan alone accounting for 45% of the year's total military aid disbursements.

Top Recipients of U.S. Military Aid, FY2010

Country

$U.S. millions

Afghanistan

6,800.3

Israel

2,799.5

Egypt

1,301.9

Iraq

1,006.0

Pakistan

913.9

Jordan

303.8

Somalia

204.0

Colombia

185.8

Russia

126.8

Sudan

104.9

Mexico

96.0

Poland

55.6

AID TO THE ENEMY!

JUST THINKING

February 16, 2013, 9:00am (report abuse)

WE COULD SELL OUR ENEMYS WEAPONS AND USE THE FUNDS TO CARE FOR OUR VETERANS.WHERE DID I GET A STUPID IDEA LIKE THAT?

SOME GAVE ALL

February 16, 2013, 9:32am (report abuse)

Standing up for our veterans, this is not a Democratic responsibility, it's not a Republican responsibility -- it’s an American responsibility. It’s an obligation of every citizen who enjoys the freedom that these heroes defended.

WAKE UP AMERICA!

February 16, 2013, 9:52am (report abuse)

LETS HEAR IT FROM THHOSE WHO NEVER SERVED-THEY FLED TO CANADA-GOT PARDONED,YET ENJOY THE LIBERTYS THAT OUR HEROES DIED FOR!OUR VETS ARE STILL FIGHTING THOSE WARS,FIGHTING FOR THE CARE THEY RIGHTLY DESERVE.THEY ARE ALL OVER AMERICA,WITH HORRIABLE INJURIES AND DISEASES. THEY DIDNT CUT AND RUN.LETS NOT RUN FROM THEM.

AndyJohnson

(logged-in user) February 16, 2013, 10:18am (report abuse)

Well, looks like theveterans welfare crowd is hot on the trail of a new handout. The only problem is that those that served offshore were never exposed. There has never been evidence of exposure. The IOM can't find it and neither can DoD, DvA or the courts. It just didn'r happen. Even the IOM Blue water Navy report said there was no evidence. This bill has failed in Congress for the past 6 years. There's a reason for that. NO EVIDENCE!!!

AndyJohnson

(logged-in user) February 16, 2013, 10:19am (report abuse)

When someone finds 'QUALIFIED' evidence that troops in Thailand and Guam or offshore elements were ever harmed to a degree necessary for presumption please point it out. The VA to date has been unable to find it. Qualified evidence is defined as “statistically significant, capable of replication and has withstood peer review.” The NRCET Study (Australian Study) is none of these. As a matter of fact, the authors later admitted they 'assumed' a certain level of contamination and there has never been evidence any contamination of water in the South China Sea existed.

So where do these ridiculous requirements come from. Well, folks, directly from Congress themselves. These are the requirements congress imposed on VA in their Public Law 102-4, the Agent Orange Act of 1991. If anyone has bothered to read it, it says;

continued...

AndyJohnson

(logged-in user) February 16, 2013, 10:19am (report abuse)

...continued

The law provides that whenever the Secretary determines that a positive association exists between exposure to a herbicide agent and a disease, the Secretary will publish regulations establishing presumptive service connection for that disease. The term “positive association” means that the credible evidence for an association equals or outweighs the credible evidence against an association.

In making the determination the Secretary is required to take into consideration whether the results of any study are “statistically significant, are capable of replication and withstand peer review.”

continued...

AndyJohnson

(logged-in user) February 16, 2013, 10:20am (report abuse)

...continued

Note the VA added three new conditions on the basis of the 2008 IOM study yet the Secretary pointedly left out BWN despite the report. It isn't hard to figure out why. The Secretary did this off the 2006 report when he added Amloidosis and explained he wouldn't include HTN because the studies the IOM relied on weren't qualified.

If Congress takes the trouble to examine the scientific evidence, they will not pass this bogus legislation. The VA OGC says Congress did not intend to include BWN in the AO act of 1991 and the Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit agreed. Haas lost in the courts, that's why we have this pity bill now.

Better find some qualified evidence or this is going down the tubes, or it ought to.

AndyJohnson

(logged-in user) February 16, 2013, 10:20am (report abuse)

This site states the average human TCDD level in 1970 was 20 Parts Per Trillian , We know Vietnam veterans tested less than 5 PPT.

Wonder where folks that never went to Vietnam got that 20 PPT from?

http://www.dioxinfacts.org/dio…dioxin_tissues/yushchenko.html

You can stick your head in the sand all you want but science tells us that we received a lot more exposure right here in good ole toxic USA than anyone did in Vietnam.

AndyJohnson

(logged-in user) February 16, 2013, 10:21am (report abuse)

How do we know Vietnam veterans tested less than 5 PPT?

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00000939.htm

The preliminary TCDD distributions, which are shown in Figure 1 and are based on the first 519 specimens processed, represent a 68 random sample of the participants. All of these men except one had TCDD levels (based on lipid weight) below 20 parts per trillion (ppt), which is considered the upper limit for residents of the United States without known TCDD exposure (6,7,11,12). There was no significant difference among the three Vietnam veteran exposure groups selected on the assumption of short environmental availability of TCDD (p=.83). Likewise, no association was found between TCDD levels and two other methods of scoring exposure that were chosen to reflect a longer environmental persistence of TCDD (one method accounted for the distance from the spray, without regard to the time since spraying, and the other accounted for total days spent in heavily sprayed areas).

AndyJohnson

(logged-in user) February 16, 2013, 10:21am (report abuse)

Finally, no association was found between TCDD levels and self-perceived herbicide exposure in the military (either direct exposure or delayed exposure). The median TCDD levels for all exposure groups were between 3.5 and 4.3 ppt. Furthermore, TCDD medians for Vietnam veterans (median = 3.8 ppt) and non-Vietnam veterans (median = 3.9 ppt) were virtually the same. A full report will be published after TCDD measurements have been completed for all participants and the full report has been reviewed by the Agent Orange Working Group of the Domestic Policy Council (Executive Branch) and by the Congressional Office of Technology Assessment. Reported by: Agent Orange Projects, Div of Chronic Disease Control, Div of Environmental Health Laboratory Sciences, Center for Environmental Health, CDC.

AndyJohnson

(logged-in user) February 16, 2013, 10:21am (report abuse)

http://tinyurl.com/6rfsk6w

Dioxin Levels Found In Vietnam Veterans Termed Not Unusual

Preliminary results of a study of 444 Vietnam veterans who may have been exposed to the herbicide Agent Orange show that very few veterans have unusually high levels of dioxin, the potentially harmful chemical in the herbicide, researchers said today.

Blood tests were performed on 444 combat veterans who served in areas where Agent Orange was sprayed. The chemical was used widely in Vietnam to destroy jungle plant cover that concealed enemy troop movements from the air.

Only one of the veterans tested showed a dioxin level higher than the expected range for Americans with no known exposure, the Centers for Disease Control reported. That veteran showed a dioxin level of 25 parts per trillion. The expected range for Americans with no known exposure is from zero to 20 parts per trillion, researchers said.

continued...

AndyJohnson

(logged-in user) February 16, 2013, 10:22am (report abuse)

...continued

The report said the median level of dioxin exposure in the VIETNAM VETERANS was 3.8 parts per trillion, meaning that half the veterans had higher levels and half had lower levels. This was virtually identical to the median level of 3.9 parts per trillion found in the blood of people of the same general age who DID NOT serve in Vietnam.

So where exactly is it you were exposed???

Congress needs to revisit the AO Act and re-evaluate where you were exposed and define who is responsible.

AndyJohnson

(logged-in user) February 16, 2013, 10:23am (report abuse)

South China Sea is 1.15million sq mileswith an avg depth of 4800 ft. IOW about 1 million cubic miles

http://www.glencoe.com/sec/mat…/usa_today/index.php4/ny/421_2

Now, just so everyone has some idea of how little dioxin was dropped. During the entire history of herbicide spraying in Vietnam (10 yrs) the Ranchhand project dropped 20 million gallons of herbicide. Assuming all of it was AO, which it was not, there would have been approximately 324 lbs of dioxin. That's 324 lbs spread over 10 years. Now try to imagine dropping 32 lbs ( 1 tenth) of sugar in the South China Sea over an entire year. Do you think it would even be detectable???

continued...

AndyJohnson

(logged-in user) February 16, 2013, 10:23am (report abuse)

...continued

Personally, I don't care how hazardous dioxin was, mixing that little amount in the vast South China Sea and expecting you were harmed by it because you spent a couple months offshore is ridiculous. The fact of the matter is you were probably better off than had you been home and exposed to dioxin in toxic USA. The only reason the EPA states there is no safe level of exposure is because science has yet to provide a way to test for a safe level.

Do you have any idea how much water is in the South China Sea? Would you believe approx. 1 million cubic MILES. Thats right, 1 million cubic miles. I can't even imagine a volume of a million cubic miles. The SCS is approximately 1.2 million sq miles in area to an average depth of approx 4800 ft. http://www.glencoe.com/sec/mat…/usa_today/index.php4/ny/421_2

continued...

AndyJohnson

(logged-in user) February 16, 2013, 10:23am (report abuse)

...continued

The only thing more ludacris is expecting you were harmed by one imaginary ranch hand aircraft ditching at sea. We're still waiting for that link to an authoritative source for that imaginary ditching, liar.

This legislation is nothing more than a welfare program for a handful of lazy a$$ vets looking to have the public fund their retirement program because they were too st00p!d or lazy to do it themselves.

Find authoritative and qualified evidence and show it to Congress cuz they don't believe your BS.

AndyJohnson

(logged-in user) February 16, 2013, 10:24am (report abuse)

http://www-nehc.med.navy.mil/d…0Assessment/PTC_DIOXINS_IP.pdf

Key Issues and Concepts

Dioxins are a high profile family of chemicals that have generated considerable concern among the general public because they are among some of the most toxic chemicals ever evaluated for

toxicity in animals.

Dioxins are ubiquitous in the environment at low levels. It is believed that the majority of exposure to dioxins is through consumption of food products such as beef and milk.

2,3,7,8-TCDD is the most toxic of the dioxin compounds. The toxicity of all other dioxins are expressed relative to 2,3,7,8-TCDD via Toxic Equivalence Factors (TEFs). 2,3,7,8-TCDD Toxic Equivalents (TEQs) are determined by multiplying the compound concentrations by their respective TEF and summing them.

continued...

AndyJohnson

(logged-in user) February 16, 2013, 10:24am (report abuse)

2,3,7,8-TCDD, and related compounds, have the ability to produce a wide spectrum of responses in animals (e.g., cancer, reproductive/developmental, and immunotoxic effects) and presumably, in humans.

It is unclear how toxic dioxins are to humans because the deleterious effects observed in animals have not been convincingly demonstrated in humans.

The background concentration of dioxins in U.S. soil is approximately 8 parts per trillion TEQ (USEPA, 1994b).

Dioxins rapidly decompose in sunlight; therefore, soil sampling depth intervals should be evaluated to determine if they are representative of plausible exposures (USEPA, 1994c).

See that part about being unclear???

"The EPA never said there was no safe level!!!" liar!

AndyJohnson

(logged-in user) February 16, 2013, 10:24am (report abuse)

Why do you think Congress has ignored BWN these past 15 years? They've had all that time to do something about the BW issue yet they choose to ignore it.

It can't be about politics because this has occurred thru multiple administrations.

It can't be about money because we were spending fast and furious some of those years.

It can't be because people don't like vets because military sympathy was really high after 9/11.

I cannot help but think Congress simply agrees with the courts and the DVA position.

Looks to me like just a lump of coal in your stocking this Christmas girls.

Time to get a fooking job. GoodWill is hiring trainees. Labor Ready also hires unskilled street people to pick berries, sweep streets and stand on the side walk in a hot dog suit with a reader board. Just your style.

Get back to us and tell Congress when you find authoritative and qualified evidence that BWN was exposed to herbicide off shore in Vietnam.

AndyJohnson

(logged-in user) February 16, 2013, 10:26am (report abuse)

This Bill has no merit because there is no qualified evidence that dioxin ever left the land mass of Vietnam and/or was ever available in the offshore environment in sufficient quantity to harm units operating there. Despite all the protestations, the IOM has been unable to find any

This Bill proposes to make a mockery of veterans disability compensation by giving money to those not disabled by military service. IOW, a handout. Something for nothing

This Bill, more appropriately, should be called the Veterans Handout Bill.

Why do I call this the Veterans Handout Bill? ...because compensation is intended to offset a veterans disabling condition suffered in service to the people. This Bill asks the people to pay veterans money when there is no evidence a loss was incurred in service, IOW, a handout.

Every disabled veteran should be outraged that some folks are seeking to use veterans compensation to augment their retirement

AndyJohnson

(logged-in user) February 16, 2013, 10:26am (report abuse)

Definition: hand·out

–noun Informal.

1.a portion of food or the like given to a needy person, as a beggar.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/handout

Definition: hand·out

Function: noun

1 : a portion of food, clothing, or money given to or as if to a beggar

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/handout

Definition: welfare

–noun

3.financial or other assistance to an individual or family from a city, state, or national government: Thousands of jobless people in this city would starve if it weren't for welfare.

4.(initial capital letter) Informal. a governmental agency that provides funds and aid to people in need, esp. those unable to work.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/welfare

Definition: compensation

–noun

1. the act or state of compensating.

2. the state of being compensated.

3. something given or received as an equivalent for debt, loss, injury, suffering, lack, etc

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/compensation

AndyJohnson

(logged-in user) February 16, 2013, 10:29am (report abuse)

"THE IOM HAS IDENTIFIED SEVERAL PLAUSIBLE ROUTES THE BLUE WATER NAVY COULD HAVE BEEN EXPOSED.INHALATION FOLLOWED BY MUCOCILIARY TRANSPORT TOSHIPS AT SEA.DERMAL CONTACT IF EXPOSED TO SPRAY DIRECTLY OR FROM HERBICIDE DUMPS.TCDD COULD CONTAMINATE MARINE WATERS OFF THE COAST OF SOUTH VIETNAM.BLUE WATER SHIPS MAY HAVE DISTILLED THOSE MARINE WATERS,SO TCDD CONTAMINATION OF POTABE WATER ABOARD THOSE SHIPS WAS POSSIABLE"

Note the use of weasel words such as plausable, could have, if, may have and possible.

It is also POSSIBLE that the core of the moon is made of green cheese and is is PLAUSABLE that it MAY HAVE or COULD HAVE been put there by some alien civilization when they created the moon.

Please note that the IOM never once used words like DID, MORE LIKELY THAN NOT, PROBABLE.

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