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Discussion: H.R. 675, To amend title 10, United States Code, to provide police officers, criminal investigators, and game law enforcement officers of the Department of Defense with authority to execute warrants, make arrests, and carry firearms (41 comments ↓ | 3 wiki edits)
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Matt
February 14, 2009, 3:34pm (report abuse)The PROBLEM is that currently the US Military is switching over to a system of Civilian Police to provide law enforcement and protection for military basses and facilities do the shortage of Military Police and the need to develop a more professional and stable police services. Currently the DOD Civilian Police is operated by each military branch under the authority of the Base Commander and not under any Federal Law. This does NOT provide for effective force protection, uniformity, stability, or direction to the Police services. Currently no one is sure of the status and authority to perform police functions, policies and regulations very widely between facilities. This Bill is just one step in correcting what is wrong and moving to a professional police service.
MC
April 7, 2009, 5:28pm (report abuse)Very well put Matt. I agree 100%. When you continue to allow the Base Commander to make decisions pertaining to Law Enforcement, 99.9% of the time it will hinder the punishment process among other things.
dfjksldf
April 10, 2009, 6:16pm (report abuse)Why don't you just ask the Norfolk City Magistrate if the DOD Officers on Naval Station Norfolk have the same authority as their city and state counterparts. You will be told that they do, and are allotted the privilege of using the Norfolk Court System AND the Norfolk City Jail. I know, and I was pretty amazed also. There is nothing wrong with it though.
dodcop
(logged in user) May 6, 2009, 3:46am (report abuse)I firmly believe that absolute power corrupts absolutely. Having one person with the ability to determine who is held accountable, and the ability to remove that accountability without due process( as in allowing the courts to determine guilt) is not an impartial application of the law. It also seems this is a problem from coast to coast, I have read many posts on many boards detailing how some CO's at several bases using their authority to dismiss 1408's, 1805's,state citations, even criminal charges. I have seen it first hand. Its a step in the right direction for fair and impartial application of the law on all exclusive, proprietary, and conclusive jurisdictions.
dodmccop
May 6, 2009, 8:36am (report abuse)They call us Civilian Marines. or Civilian Marine Corps Police....Even our badges and patches say US Marine Corps Police......WHY???? We work for the Dept of Defense.but because of our label we are told that we can't carry off duty unless its a ccw, plus we don't get credentials...because they say that in the USMC only CID and NCIS get credentials....the fact of the matter is WE ARE CIVILIAN!!!! This become an issue of officer safety because we come to work and go home from work in uniforms that say "Police Officer" I recommend that everyone write to their Congressman or the Sec. of Defense and ask that this gets pushed through....
civlian-officer
May 16, 2009, 6:26pm (report abuse)No offense to any MPs, or even DOD officers. But this bill is a pandoras box. If you guys need help, it needs a different bill other than to give carte blanche national jurisdiction to enforce federal, state, and local laws with the approval of just one person. We civilian officers may be short handed and times, and would greatly appreciate the help in certain situations. But, this bill needs some work to make it less of a "one civilian police force for America" type of bill. It's intentions may not be as such, but, the wording certainly allows for it.
dodmccop
May 17, 2009, 4:45pm (report abuse)It's not a matter of enforcing fed/state/local laws...it's not even about having a national police force. It's about being able to have the same authority as the rest of the dod police (veteran's affair's police, pentagon police etc.) The right to carry a weapon on/off duty as stated for all dod officers..To carry credentials as dod officers and not be looped in as a "military police officer". How bad is it when someone approaches you for help and you can't do anything because your deemed "not a real cop" because of your label. Here's and example:
usmc civialian cop observes civilian hit a kid with a car, injuring the child. upon stopping said civilian, you conduct field sobriety tests and determine that civilain is intoxicated, but because he is a civ, you have no jurisdiction. you have to call local pd. Local pd shows up, gives civ breathalyzer, and he is not drunk anymore. He gets off with a citation.
Again we just want the rights of the rest of our dod counterparts...
Smk99
June 10, 2009, 4:09pm (report abuse)dfjksldf,
I can assure you that while the Norfolk Magistrate does say that, any Norfolk Naval Base officer who takes someone downtown will be fired for doing so. The Navy will not allow the officers to transport persons downtown, or issue a uniformed summons. So, yes they have the authority, but they cant use it unless the Navy lets them. That is unacceptable.
DONPD
June 15, 2009, 6:16pm (report abuse)The way the current OPNAV and COMNAVREGMIDLANT procedures are written we can only enforce selected federal and state, when assimilated into fed regs using 18 USC 13, codes. We have to call in local pd for trans to city jail.
PHPDRentACop
June 23, 2009, 9:20am (report abuse)My two cents:
As a DOD *quasi* Police Officer at Pearl Harbor, I can tell you that under the law we are MILITARY police. We are no different (except that we make less money) than Army MP's, Navy MA's, etc. Just because you're a civilian, doesn't make you any different. We are unglorified security for the military. If you bothered to read, you'd realize that all the manuals state that the word "POLICE" is used because of its universal recognition. In other words, they only call us "police" because it acts as a better deterrent.
I know most DOD officers like to run around swearing up and down that they're cops, but the bottom line is that unless this Bill passes (and it's been ignored once already and likely will continue to be so) we are not and never will be law enforcement. You want to be a cop? Join your local State or City Department.
Reverend Josh Taylor
June 23, 2009, 10:06pm (report abuse)This bill is making us christians face martyrdom. If that's the case, then I have no use for this world. I can't wait to go to Heaven.
(Reciting Psalm 23 before facing the guillotine)
Lord Jesus, I'm coming home.
Ric75
June 30, 2009, 12:56pm (report abuse)This bill does not limit their authority to military installations or military personnel. So it could extend off base.
KB
July 1, 2009, 8:43am (report abuse)The bill needs to properly limit the jurisdiction of such officers to places and property under the control of the military. The DOD has specific, limited jurisdiction over its installations and facilities, and those limitations should apply to its civilian Police Officers. For example, Park Rangers are credentialed federal LEOs, but their jurisdiction is properly limited to the facilities managed by the National Park Service. The jurisdictional limitations for civilian DOD police are similarly geographic in nature, and are appropriate to DOD's mission and interests. Moreover, I am both a credentialed law enforcement officer and a military reservist; some of the civilian DOD officers I've seen are sharp, but the majority are angry mall cops (sorry, guys, you know its true). Overall, they are going to need some serious training and re-orientation toward real police work and police culture before it will be appropriate to give them warrant service, arrest, and 24/7 carry authority.
CountyCop
July 2, 2009, 1:28am (report abuse)25 years ago I worked briefly 1.25 years as a DoD cop. I couldn't believe that we couldn't arrest a civilian DUI or write a "real ticket" to a civilian on a military base. Also, on the way to and from work wearing a police uniform that we were unarmed. From what I read now, guess it's not much better !
VET
July 13, 2009, 7:47am (report abuse)the words without warrant scare the crap out of me, anyone they feel is a threat can be arrested, this will become a tool for the government to control civilians even more
DA COP
July 19, 2009, 6:04am (report abuse)On the post I work at we issue Mandatory Court tickets along with monetary fine tickets to civilians and soldiers that perform the crimes to warrant such citations. We do patrol armed. We also process any DUI that we catch on our installation. It helps that we have a large installation (Army). This bill is about leveling the playing field and recognizing that the danger we face is the same if not more as any city or county cop faces. Therefore we should have the credentials and LEO status to back it up. We do real police work and make real enemies doing so. As far as training the Department of the Army has set up its own Police Academy that the civilian force must attend.
K-9 COP
July 22, 2009, 2:32am (report abuse)if you look like a police officer does a criminal really care if you have the authority to arrest or not...NO, so why not protect our leo brethren and pass this bill so that dod police dont have to worry about if they are or aren't suposse to get involved. also most states if not all say its a felony to impersonate a LEO so doesnt wearing a patch that says police on it sound like a problem waiting to happen while driving to and from work. i dont know thats justg my opinion , i'd rather not chance some LEO on a power trip pulling me over and hauling me in for impersonating a police officer
CountyCop
July 22, 2009, 5:08am (report abuse)I really don't think that the federal legislation will pass. I understand what the DoD Police are going through. It seems that most people would not have a problem if they understood the basics. Law Enforcement officers most generally; whether federal, state, county or city have the authority by statute to make an arrest for any felony and/or some misdemeanors without a warrant not committed in their presence. Somehow the DoD cops were left out,probably by design due to the rigorous military interpretation of the Posse Comitatus Act. If the legislation were written to state that DoD cops (army, navy, marines or air force) were authorized to enforce federal criminal laws, the UCMJ and local laws under the Assimilative Crimes Act in connection with their duties on military property then the conspiracy theory types might grasp the true purpose. As long as a Provost Marshal type is running L/E on the base/post you guys will be relegated to "mall cop" duties
DPS86
(logged in user) July 27, 2009, 12:18pm (report abuse)I think that all Police Officer's that work for the Department Of Defense no matter what branch of military should be umbrella under DOD Police. This would make all policy the same across the board. It would also keep high ranking officer's and civilian's from stepping in and under minding the officer.
Mobius128
August 4, 2009, 7:02pm (report abuse)I can't understand why DOD police need this. I, as a military police officer, have assisted civilian law enforcement in traffic accidents and traffic stops... do I have statutory authority? No, but I was acting as a good citizen and under the color of law. I've had the opportunity to work with many DOD police and I have to say that there are SOME very high quality officers, however, a vast majority are unprofessional and unfamiliar with the scope of thier duties. Maybe if the standards were increased (physical fitness, training, etc.) I could consider this bill a good thing. I would love it because we need more LEO's on the streets. But the thing is... MP's, MA's, and SF typically face the same dangers (if not more in some cases) on the job. They do fine without statutory authority. Why does a DOD cop with the exact same job need to be John Wayne off duty? Not covered under HR 218? Solution: Get a CCW permit, even carry your badge with it.. just like alot of MP's.
dodmccop
August 5, 2009, 7:49am (report abuse)Mobius,
As you stated "Not covered under HR 218? Solution: Get a CCW permit, even carry your badge with it.. just like alot of MP's."
That is one of the problems. We cannot carry our badges off duty because our authority ceases when our shift ends on or off base.
PHPDPOLICEOFFICER
August 7, 2009, 6:38am (report abuse)DISAGREEING with the above PHPDRENTACOPO
Well I will blatantly disagree with the above poster. I issue 1805 magistrate citations that cause real court appearances at the federal court downt town and real money out of people pockets. I enforce state as well as federal as well as UCMJ. If the state law is violated in my jurisdiction then I assimilate the state law to federal code and write the 1805 wich will stand in court. If the said individual weather military member or non affiliated civilian fails to respond to the court date or fails to pay the monetary fine then a real warrant for the individuals arrest will be issued. While I do not have the power to issue warrants I surely have the power to run a 10-29 and arrest the individual for the warrant and eighter process them through my police department if a military member or keep them in custody till the state / city police choose to or not to come take the suspect for the said warrant.
PHPDPOLICEOFFICER
August 7, 2009, 6:39am (report abuse)I can give DUI's that go through the state level as well as excessive speeding tickets through the state level. Both include having the military member or civilians license suspended as well as monetary fines and for the excessive speeding of 30 mph or more above the specified limit no less that 48 hours imprisonment.
PHPDPOLICEOFFICER
August 7, 2009, 6:40am (report abuse)I have a badge as well as credentials that say DOD police officer...
To me as long as I can put cuffs on..Issue citations that cause court appearances or monetary fines...Run code and pull people over on concurrent state roads. Do DUI's...Do traffic accidents..And carry a weopon and have the badge and credentials then I am a police officer...The only thing that I cant do at this time is book people into jail and serve warrants. But we have in house NCIS agents that can do that if need be...
PHPDPOLICEOFFICER
August 7, 2009, 6:41am (report abuse)As for the issuing warrants thing it dosent bother me. I like running the 10-29 and catching the person with the warrant. As far as bokking some one into jail and actually arresting them ( the true definition of arrest power is the ability to book someone into jail) yes I can not do that. But I sure can put on cuffs and aprrehend them and transport them back to my station for finger printing and processing ect.
PHPDPOLICEOFFICER
August 7, 2009, 6:42am (report abuse)The above poster likes to compare us to military cops. The military cops I have talked to in this stae can not give DUI's. The DOD police must arrive to give the DUI. The Military police I talked to in this state on the army installation can not do traffic accidents and must rely on the DOD traffic investigator...
I my self at my DOD location can do all the above. Their is no specialized DOD traffic investigator for accidents or DUI's ect. I can do it all....
PHPDPOLICEOFFICER
August 7, 2009, 6:43am (report abuse)I may be attending a city academy in the future. I have friends from that city academy who now work at my DOD location. They say that besides the case load everything is the same. At the city location you may get 5-20 cases a day while at my DOD location you may get 1-5 per day...
To the above poster please dont generalize us all on how you feel. Or stopp doing 10-28's and 10-38's and drug cases and for the love of GOD no more DUI's...Ive never herd of a security guard who can do the above while carrying a weopon and driving a vehicle with blue lights and credentials that clearly say DOD Police Officer...
PHPDPOLICEOFFICER
August 7, 2009, 6:45am (report abuse)If you pulled me over and I saw the blue light I would assume your a cop..If you approach my vehicle with your gun belt ect. and a uniform that clearly says POLICE then I would assume you were a cop. If you suspected me of drinking alcohal and asked me to step out of the vehicle and start a HGN test thenn I would assume you were a cop. When the state takes away my drivers license and I possibly loose my job do to your actions and my misguided thinking on drinking and driving I would again assume your a cop...
To have all this occur on a state road on my way to my home and have no idea it was a concurrent federal/state road and then to find out you consider your self a security guard would greatly upset me....As Securitas at the Walmart Parking lot can surely not pull me over with blue lights and give a DUI..So why can you???????
But we both no you legally can do the above. So please if your a security guard then no more police work..
PHPDPOLICEOFFICER
August 7, 2009, 6:53am (report abuse)NOW WITH ALL THAT SAID..I ROUTINELY RUN INTO PEOPLE I HAVE GIVEN TICKETS TO ECT. HERE IN OAHU HAWAII THIS IS A LITTLE 40 MILE BY 40 MILE ISLAND AND WITH 250 PHPD POLICE OFFICERS WE ARE THE SECOND LARGEST CIVILIAN LAW ENFORCEMENT ENTITY ON THIS ISLAND..ONCE AGAIN SINCE THIS IS A SMALL ISLAND AND WE ARE DOD NAVY CIVILIAN POLICE YOU CAN IMAGINE THAT WE HAVE JURISDICTION ALL OVER THE ISLAND...
AND WE ARE ABOUT TO AQUIRE THE AIR FORCE JURISDICTION AS WE WILL SOON BE NAVY AND AIR FORCE DOD CIVILIAN POLICE.
THE POINT OF THIS ALL IS THAT I HAVE PUT CUFFS ON AND OFF INDIVIDUALS AND WROTE MORE US MAGISTRATE CITATIONS FOR SPEEDING AND NO INSURANCE THAN I CAN REMEMBER. AND I CONSTANTLY RUN INTO THESE INDIVIDUALS OUT IN THE PUBLIC. AND SOME OF THEM ARENT HAPPY...THIS BILL WOULD ALLOW ME TO LEGALLY PROTECT MY SELF..JUST THGE OTHER NIGHT I ISSUED COURT CITATIONS TO A GROUP OF 5 SOMOANS WHO WERE NOT HAPPY. ALL CIVILIANS ALL IN A OPEN TO THE PUBLIC WOODED AREA. WE NEED THIS BILL
Mobius128
August 7, 2009, 12:41pm (report abuse)Well, I can see it really varies by branch of service and the installation. At the installation I most recently served at the MP's and DOD were completely equal (minus pay, uniform, and other obvious things). We rode together, responded to calls together (traffic accidents, domestics, etc.), and manned entry control points together. I understand that other installations may have different policies... such as the carrying of credentials off duty. This all makes it even clearer to me that the DOD police need to get a clear "across the board" standard on training, policies, and procedures. DOD police is a real misnomer anyway. I'm aware of agencies that call themselves DOA police, DON police (a lot of DON police have DOD police patches), USMC Police, etc. Until all of these agencies come together and actually create an ACTUAL Department of Defense police agency, there simply won't be a clear cut standard for all of these 0083 police officers working under the armed services.
PHPDPOLICEOFFICER
August 7, 2009, 6:16pm (report abuse)Yes I agree. At PearlHarbor it is 95% dod civilian police and even our Chief is a civilian. The MA's when I was at Pearl harbor did very little to any patrol and were mostly used as gate guards. They got a new E-6 in charge of them before I left and he was fighting to make things differant.
Every base dose things differantly. But from what Ive read Pearl is siomply one of the best places to be DOD police. Just the fact that our patches say DOD and we have credentials is a good start. Then lots of off base Jurisdiction makes it worth while as well...
Im sure it greatly varies from place to place. But I love being a DOD police officer here in Hawaii..
If this bill dose pass it would just be icing on the cake as far as cred amongst the city police and sherriffs..but really the job would still really be the same. Just the safety of a take home concealed weopon is all Im looking for
PHPDPOLICEOFFICER
August 7, 2009, 6:37pm (report abuse)As far as the dod police being a misonamer..Id have to disagree. The Army...Marines...Airforce...Navy are all just sub-departments of the Department of Defense. The Department of Defense is really just a goverment agency thats main goal is defending the United states and our interest.
However if you ENLIST into say the Army..And you become an MP...Well then you are an Army MP...
PHPDPOLICEOFFICER
August 7, 2009, 6:38pm (report abuse)On the other hand HRO is an independant agency that dose the hiring and job classifications for the department of defense. So if you become a 0083 Police Officer you are working for the Department of Defense as a Police officer.
However some one needed the Police officer and informed HRO that they had this need before you even applied..
Lets say it was the Navy. So now you would be a HRO classified 0083 Police officer who's location would be at a Navy base. Yes you would work directly with the navy and perhaps even have Navy personell in your chain of command...
But if you screwed up it wouldnt be the navy firing you. It would be that same independant HRO that classified you as a 0083 in the first place. My check dosent say department of the navy.
It says Department of defense civilian leave and earnings statement...
PHPDPOLICEOFFICER
August 7, 2009, 6:39pm (report abuse)People in the military dont worry about HRO....But civilian department of Defense personell do..Brainwashing Police to beleave they are Department of the Army ect. and fall under posse Commitatas (spelling) is just another way for the military branches to have control. We are department of defense Police officers designated by HRO as GS0083's who work at differant locations (military bases)...
My installation has never told me I am a department of the Navy police officer. Even my academy was labled department of defense Police Academy
dod marine ca
August 13, 2009, 2:56pm (report abuse)i like all this talk but what exactly can we do i am inclined to agree with the more negative,that we aren't cops which means just collect a paycheck, don't provide first responder assitance. i am no longer bound by law any more to render first responder aid because security guards have the choice to involve themselves or not. police have no choice, i also can't be held to enforce any "Proactive Law" i am just a security guard. obsevere and report. dont get me wrong i want these things as much as you but you can only win their game when you play by their rules. dont give them the things they expect from a police officer just give them a security guard.
DOD1
August 28, 2009, 5:11pm (report abuse)Addressing KB: "The bill needs to properly limit the jurisdiction of such officers to places and property under the control of the military."
United States of America v. Chae Wan Chon:
DoD Directive 5525.5(A) (2) allows for direct assistance in civilian law enforcement activities where the actions are taken for the primary purpose of furthering a military of foreign affairs function of the United States. Specifies that such actions include the protection of DoD personnel, DoD equipment, and official guests of the Department of Defense.
DoDI 5525.13 section 6.2 read it all!
DON and MC LEO's read 10USC7480:
(b) Agents To Have Authority- applies to any employee of the Department of the Navy who is a special agent of the Naval Criminal Investigative Service (or any successor to that service) whose duties include conducting, supervising, or coordinating investigations of criminal activity in programs and operations of the Department of the Navy
Problem? Lack of uniformity!
DOD1
August 28, 2009, 5:18pm (report abuse)Pay particular attention to DoDI 5525.13 for the 0083's
"Limitation of Authority to Deputize DoD Uniformed Law Enforcement Personnel by State and Local Governments"
"3.1. Uniformed Law Enforcement Personnel. Military Police (Army and Marine Corps), Security Forces (Air Force), Masters’-at-Arms (Navy), and Civilian Police (GS 083 series – NSPS Pay Schedules YM and YN) of the DoD Components who wear a military uniform with police identification or a civilian police uniform while on duty."
Problem? the training and getting your command to draft a letter.
Without a specific statute forcing commands to allow law enforcement, DOD Police will not be able to do their jobs. It's simple, act like a security guard or act like a cop. Get proactive and push the bills and above all do some research into the laws! The authority is out there, there just has to be a clear cut wording for commands to allow.
Bob
August 29, 2009, 12:16pm (report abuse)I have been in Department of Defense Police for 23 years, certified trough GLYNCO this bill is what we all need. This wil help us seperate from the people that like to control the police department. I do not know about you all but allowing me to do my job is #1 in my book. I believe To many people like to put thier hands into the police department and stop us form doing whats right.
Thank you. Bob
Former MP
September 13, 2009, 8:25pm (report abuse)First thanks for all those 0083 who serve for the right reasons. For those who feel the authorities provided by the installation commander, yes installation commander under Title 10 primarily so that he or she can protect the installation then maybe you should find a LE position in the civil sector. There you will also find that is not what you think. Yes you can carry a gun off duty but you will find that many departments do not back you up when it goes bad. For those who talk about being DoD Police, all 0083 police officers are an employee of the agency or service for which they are assigned i.e. Defense Logistics Agency are DLA police, Army are Department of Army Police and so on. Even employees who work for the Secretary of Defense in a position in a Office of an Under Secretary are Office of the Secretary of Defense employees they do not call themselves DoD employees. All have the same basic authorities with the final provided under a letter of authority provided by the cdr.
Former MP
September 29, 2009, 2:52am (report abuse)I was assaulted by a dod police officer. The base commander did nothing about it. The local police could not get involve because it happenend on base. DOd police are nothing but glorified security officers. They should not be allowed to carry guns. Some are former rapist.
vacop
October 27, 2009, 9:16pm (report abuse)Check out HR 673. it is much better if you are a 083 series.