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H.R. 2254, The Agent Orange Equity Act of 2009 (1305 comments ↓ | 3 wiki edits)
H.R. 2254 would amend title 38, United States Code, to clarify presumptions relating to the exposure of certain veterans who served in the vicinity of the Republic of Vietnam.
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slowdeath
June 18, 2009, 8:50am (report abuse)CRT, you may be a smart man, I can't tell, BWN has offered proof that there is a likely as not possibility that exposure did cause the problems however you and your anti-cronies can't offer any PROOF that the exposure did not happen. Only conjecture. Arguing with the likes of you guys is a waste of time. You comment about taxpayers money, yet you are willing to accept that same money for your double dipping. I am sure you only post the stuff to get people stirred up. You poor, poor little man. I like the way these people always say something is wrong when they it proof them wrong. Way to go FTROOPER, uc-123, and now CRT.
Jennifer
June 18, 2009, 10:38pm (report abuse)My father is a Vietnam Veteran and he was 'boots on ground' He has never asked for any thing from the government or the VA since his return from the war. He has recently been diagnosed with Prostate and colon cancer and has diabetes as well. He served his country and worked directly with the food and water in Da Nang. I agree with you CRT that someone should not be compensated if they did not suffer from exposure and I understand your thought process behind showing 'proof' that you were exposed. The problem though is that the men serving in Vietnam were not concentrating on collecting soil and water samples. They did not anticipate the need to. They concentrated on surviving the war. I don't know how old you are nor do I need to know but I am pretty sure you could not provide proof of something that happened to you ten years ago let alone 40. Can you prove that AO wasn't used? Can you prove that AO doesn't cause these illnesses and more?
Jennifer
June 18, 2009, 10:56pm (report abuse)To add to that we need to look at an even bigger picture. If we had sufficient health care in the US many of these so called 'whiners' wouldn't need to ask for VA or governmental support. If the health care system wasn't as badly broken as it is, their needs would be met. The bottom line is people deserve compensation for a service provided. Whether the cause of these illnesses is AO or not, veterans provided a service to our country. When you work and retire from a job you expect a pension and social security benefits. You don't expect to walk away from a job with nothing to show for the years of service you provided. The medical care the vets receive from the VA is no different. It is what they deserve regardless of what they were exposed to in Vietnam. My father worked his whole life and he's now 59 yrs old and has no medical coverage outside of what the VA offers. He is unable to work bcse of the illness. What do you propose he do CRT? It's either welfare or VA. You pick!
CRT
June 19, 2009, 12:38am (report abuse)Jennifer,
If your father was, in fact, boots on the ground and has documentation to prove that fact, he has nothing else to prove to the VA. He is presumed to have been exposed and is eligible for benefits from the VA. All he has to do is apply. The legislation being proposed by this bill would allow anyone who flew over or who was in the south china sea to also claim exposure, even though there is no scientific proof that any of them were ever exposed.
All your points may well be valid but they have no bearing on this discussion.
CRT
June 19, 2009, 2:12am (report abuse)LRM,
I'm sure you saw a lot of combat action from your lookout at Yankee Station. Tell us again how you were personally involved in combat operations?
LRM
June 19, 2009, 10:26am (report abuse)crt,
I didn't. Thats the whole point. My claim was approved because the Center for Disease Control said that NHL was more than likely, than less likely caused by seaduty in the waters of Vietnam. And, once again do some more work for the VA and you will find that "YANKEE STATION" was in the north. Why should my NHL be different from those who were swabbys?
CRT
June 19, 2009, 11:02am (report abuse)And Yankee Station was how far out to sea? As if you were ever in any danger, other than perhaps from others on board.
Wheeping Willow
June 19, 2009, 11:08am (report abuse)I agree that boots on ground were subject to heavier exposure but AO can drift anywhere...that's why they tell you not to use insecticide spray on your plants if its windy. What angers me is that my late husband was "boots on ground" USMC I Corp and his cancer should have been presumptive. You just can't tell me lung and prostate cancer is and esophageal cancer is not but yet when gastric cancers were to be added as presumtive there was nothing but negative comments on this site for those veterans and those cancers. Why is that?
James Nelson
June 19, 2009, 1:06pm (report abuse)For Wheeping Widow:
Madam, you do understand, I hope, that until the IOM finds a link between a particular disease and exposure to dioxin the VA cannot make it presumptive. Simply because any particular cancer is presumptive does not in any way form a connection to any other cancer.
Cancers are each different. Eacj has specific ways in which it coours and how it grows and metastisizes.
You seem to be saying all cancers, just because they are cancer, should be presumptive and this is simply not true.
Wheeping Widow
June 19, 2009, 5:26pm (report abuse)Sir,
Please tell me just how someone breathes dioxin but does not swallow it? Please tell me how dioxin gets to the prostate? I never said all cancers, I said GASTRIC CANCERS. The esophagus lies along the trachea but is not affected by TCDD? Have you actually done any research on dioxins or are you just spouting off? Try an internet search on TCDD then tell me it's not an all-site carcinogen.
And YES I understand clearly about the IOM and their reports and I understand that there were NO studies done on esophageal cancer these past two years so it will continue to remain in the inadequate or insufficient catagory (along with many other cancers) which means the IOM is deadlocked as to whether dioxins cause EC or not-read the 2006 report, it's available on line.
It's been 4 decades since our veterans were exposed to TCDD. In another decade or two they will have all died off. To continue to delay adding cancers as presumptive is nothing but White House Budget Control.
CRT
June 19, 2009, 5:38pm (report abuse)Unfortunately for you emotional pleas and whining and crying don't seem to have the desired effect on the lawmakers.
wheeping widow
June 19, 2009, 5:52pm (report abuse)I am stating the facts..I have nothing to gain either way..my husband is long gone, remember?
You, on the other hand, have yet to state anything substantial to back your ignorant comments. I am neither pleadng, crying or whining. Furthermore, I would be highly suprised if any lawmaker bothered to waste his time looking at this cite, especially your lack luster remarks.
LRM
June 19, 2009, 8:47pm (report abuse)weeping w,
I'm sorry for your loss.
crt, If this is about action. We lost 68 lives in one day,320 injuries. Put anybody at sea on fire and nothing to do but die or fight your guts out to put it out.
If it is about exposier, stay 63 days at a time with no port call,for eleven months. Loose 5 aircraft and pilots, And distilling hundreds of thousands gallons of water a day. 35 showers to shoot off one bird. Drink that nasty water. Now I have three types of cancer. But I would not take any of it back. Stop being disrespectful to our widows. It only shows your cowardness.
CRT
June 19, 2009, 11:38pm (report abuse)Respect can only be shown when there is a valid reason. Disrespect requires no such restraint. For those who, like you, claim the water at Yankee Station was contaminated the most common response is - "BULL$H1T."
grunt
June 20, 2009, 12:49am (report abuse)CRT, you're a sociopathic moron. Get a life kid!
CRT
June 20, 2009, 7:05am (report abuse)And this from someone who identifies him or herself as "grunt"? Must really be nice in that cave you live in.
Wheeping Widow
June 20, 2009, 7:32am (report abuse)A Veteran is someone who, at one point in one's life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to and including my life." That is Honor, and there are way too Many people in this country who no longer understand it.
Susan2222
June 20, 2009, 10:59am (report abuse)Gee, naysayers, why aren't you over at HR 952..crying about vets no longer having to prove their stressors for ptsd?
Airdale
June 20, 2009, 11:27am (report abuse)Hey Grunt,
Thanks for your comit on that poor LITTLE man. Vote yes .
Thanks.
..
June 20, 2009, 11:31am (report abuse)bluewaternavy claims are fraud. None of them served where the stuff was sprayed. They should all be arrested and charged with attempting to defraud the government. Period.
Susan2222
June 20, 2009, 1:26pm (report abuse)Defraud the government? What a joke...the government has done nothing but spend millions of our dollars to defraud us. You need to get a grip. HEAVY doses of dioxins where everywhere and drifted everywhere on land and sea in Asia. There's been nothing but concealment and cover-ups re: TCDD for four decades.
Why don't you just go play with your little rubber duckie?
..
June 20, 2009, 2:49pm (report abuse)Nothing but a fraud. If you had even a little bit of a brain you would know that the stuff didn't drift anywhere. You get more dioxin everyday in your hideyhole than any navy dink would have gotten in 10 years.
Thankfully the government has seen all this for what it is - a false claim trying to get something undeserved.
...
June 20, 2009, 11:05pm (report abuse)You are soo right. Anyone dumb enough to join the military diserves what they get. Volutiers my kister, They are paid . No tax money for ANY so-called veteran
LeeRoy
June 21, 2009, 11:45am (report abuse)The strange thing to me, for those using geographic areas to eleminate ships from the contamination. Average " Operation Area" is ten to fifty miles at sea and Carriers and must be turned into the wind for Ops. Prevailing wind is west to east. Normaly from Hue down to Cam Rahn.
Vung Tau About 250 kiicks to the south.[R&R retreat]is covered for boots on the ground.I've been to Vung Tau and it is nice. But if you look at the spray logs, you will see that the spraying was not used in the main Delta area. If you look at the original 1991 bill, you will see that all vietnam veterans would be covered. Remember all Service Ribbons are awared by Congress. Do a little work and I think you will vote yes.
Thanks for your time.
CRT
June 21, 2009, 12:19pm (report abuse)LeeRoy,
Find one of the reports about how the stuff was mixed and sprayed. Then you will see that your winddrift analysis is flawed.
...
June 21, 2009, 2:05pm (report abuse)wind drift, thats a good ideal. cremate them all and take them up and turn them loose and then see if any of it reaches quam? say no to ALL military bumbs. Look you lost the war for us and now you want some kind of retirement. Get real. I have a real job. Way over half of the deadbeats at the va hospitals are faking it. Vote NO!
Wheeping Widow
June 21, 2009, 2:51pm (report abuse)...
What a horrible thing to say.
Obviously you have never visited a VA hospital.
As for our Vietnam veterans losing the war FOR US, why weren't you over there fighting? Have you ever visited the Vietnam Wall?
Out of all the negative statements made on this comment board, your's is the most hateful I've ever seen. I hope you, sir, rot in Hell.
LeeRoy
June 21, 2009, 3:21pm (report abuse)To ..., You need a good ass whooping. My name is Lee Roy Moore,
I live in Paris, Texas. I'm in the book. Use your real name or be a hate filled yellow belly low life non human. You have won. I will not try to argue with all this un- American hate. I have the means to meet you any where any time.Now crawl back in bed with your mother.
Widow of Navy Veteran
June 21, 2009, 4:36pm (report abuse)Agent Orange didn't come with a set of instructions that read it was to stop at the shore line. Anyone who has taken a Science class know that anything that is sprayed becomes airbourne. The government needs to keep their promise to these Veterans. Vote yes on this bill.
Chuck
June 21, 2009, 5:31pm (report abuse)Ole CRT, STEAMJOCKEY,CRUISER.FTROOPER,CU123,or all you other paid VA Agitators, you do get around. VOTE YES folks don't spend your valuable time arguing with these phonies.
mrk
June 22, 2009, 2:08am (report abuse)the ships didn't just park at yankee station
they also came in along the coast of vietnam.
There was and operation called market time,we were very close to shore, bombed acertain area and steam up north
The tin can that I was aboard was stationed at Yankee Station.
It wasn't just anchored we never parked,we were on the gun line ,picking up flyboys that missed alanding
g2
June 22, 2009, 10:25am (report abuse)Oh by the way. Server logs show your IP address. These logs are very easy to hack, and can lead right to your street address. Right up your little keester!
CRT,STEAMJOCKEY,CRUISER.FTROOPER,CU123, you jack*sses just might be on someone's most wanted list.
Judging from all the abusive, rude, and insulting oral diarrhea that you retarded scum bags have unleashed on this forum, you should be.
And if it's found that you are us gov employees,. . . . well baby, the proverbial sh*t has just hit the fan.
g2
June 22, 2009, 10:49am (report abuse)Hey there! Ftrooper is using Twitter.
Follow this link for a photo of the jerk who calls himself Ftrooper
http://twitter.com/Ftrooper
Roger Walker, Navy VET
June 22, 2009, 11:03am (report abuse)It is apparent to anyone that was exposed to agent orange, that the pinheads with NEGATIVE comments, were NOT in the Viet Nam area. It is highly doubtful, that they have neither a family member nor a friend, who was exposed to agent orange. I would venture to also say, that the people making negative comments, exude negative feelings about the United States Military Forces & have NO cancept of what the men & women that have served & are still serving in the United States Military Services, have given for their country, so that the nay sayers , have the right to open their mouths & openly display their ignorance.
May GOD , bless the men & women , who have given of themselves, to serve this country & help keep it free
g2
June 22, 2009, 11:09am (report abuse)Heads up folks.
Steamjockey, is a VA propagandist. He posts anti veteran diatribe all over the web. Probably a VA employee. He is a regular poster at http://vets.yuku.com
For a complete list of his retarded oral diarrhea posted go here:
http://vets.yuku.com/search/text/ui
d/896864
Scanning server logs for a more personal tet-a-tet, with the Vietnam Veterans Harley Cruisers, re-orientation group.
Steamjocky I think your hemaroids are about to get much worse.
webmaster
(logged in user) June 22, 2009, 11:14am (report abuse)A reminder: Comments that are impolite, off-topic, violations of others' rights, or advertisements are likely to be removed. Please refrain from personal attacks and foul language, which do not help site visitors form opinions of this legislation.
g2
June 22, 2009, 11:18am (report abuse)Heads up. Here's a photo of Steamjocky.
A wimpy winey little sailor with 3 stripes.
http://bbarbee.avatar.yuku.com/vets
CRT
June 22, 2009, 12:12pm (report abuse)So here we are again, with the typical foul-mouthed trash-talkers who really are the ones who are behind the scam. It certainly does not lend credibility to the whole idea that these individuals are worthy of any consideration/help in gaining their goal. Thanks for showing your true colors folks.
It is also worth noting, g2, that ALL IP addresses, including yours, would be available for all if an individual were to gain access to the logs.
Nelson8989
(logged in user) June 22, 2009, 4:04pm (report abuse)Gosh, CRT, after reading over the posts sures seems to me that the trash talkers are the ones against this bill. You've voted and commented, why do you continue to haunt this site?
My late husband was not BlueWaterNavy but he fought the war, and many years later fought for his life because of it. He knew what TCDD did to OUR veterans. Vote YES!
Proud Widow of a United States Marine Vietnam 67-69 ..Semper Fi!
CRT
June 22, 2009, 5:43pm (report abuse)Nelson8989,
I don't believe I have ever said that dioxin was not a dangerous chemical nor have I said anything about those who were actually exposed on the ground filing for the things VA says are connected. As far as I am concerned those folks have every right to file claims for any connected illness.
What I am against is the bluewaternavy quest for money when there isn't any evidence they were exposed. I also do not believe that general claims of "I have cancer and I was in Vietnam so I should get paid" are correct either. If, and only if, the connection between exposure and a particular illness has been made by the IOM should any person receive any compensation.
I will continue to make that point here and anywhere else I choose as long as there are those who are attempting to gain a benefit they don't deserve.
Being a veteran does not automatically give anyone the right to anything more than any other citizen, regardless of all the hyperbole here and elsewhere.
docfuzz
(logged in user) June 22, 2009, 9:34pm (report abuse)It is sad that we Blue Water Sailors are attacked by such hateful people.
There must have been some exposure to some sort of mental illness.
CRT
June 22, 2009, 10:24pm (report abuse)docfuzz,
I believe the bluewaternavy group, as a whole, is trying to prove something that did not happen. And I am convinced it is all about money. If it was about a principle I might understand it better. But it is money, plain and simple.
If you think it is hateful to state a belief then perhaps you should look in the mirror and say "There must have been some exposure to some sort of mental illness" to the person you see there.
vetrep.
June 23, 2009, 7:51am (report abuse)These ,less than accurate slimy degrading remarks are an example of how the VA is spending our taxpayers'money. To take a few pices of silver to do this horrible job. The VA needs to be overhauled. Go back to the mail room-there is always some shreding to be done, Let Congress make this call. Vote yes
Nelson8989
(logged in user) June 23, 2009, 7:39pm (report abuse)FYI..It's about time and long overdue.
Mon June 1, 2009 8:25 AM PST
The Ford Foundation will release a report Tuesday calling for continued study of the environmental and health effects of Agent Orange, as well as for stepped-up diagnosis and treatment of US veterans exposed to it. Used as a defoliant in Vietnam to destroy vegetation used as food and cover for the Viet Cong, the dioixn--named for the orange stripe on its label--has been the subject of controversy ever since its first use in 1962. Over the ensuing ten years of hard combat, some 20 million gallons of Agent Orange and other toxic herbicides were sprayed over six million acres of Vietnamese jungle.
CRT
June 24, 2009, 12:57am (report abuse)And nothing the Ford Foundation has to say will help the bluewaternavy case at all. In fact, nothing they have to say is likely to have any effect on anything.
mrk
June 24, 2009, 1:13am (report abuse)There's a Dr.Brown,I think he works for VA or CDC.
He wrote stating that their's no scinceific evidence that ao wasn't blown all the way to yankee station or that it was in are drinking water
Guam, Where we refuel and took on supplies was soaked AO,If you took on fresh water you might have got it way.
their were 16 ships that took on fresh water, gov.came in with their people drain the tanks but got to clean the tanksand can't get bennies cause no boots on ground.
vetrep
June 24, 2009, 7:15am (report abuse)If you have Non Hodgkin's Lymphoma and you served in the South China Sea and have the Vietnam Service Metal?,You are covered under 38CFR 3.313. If they [RVO} are holding or have denied your claim. I have the memo from Admiral Dunn directing them to use 38CFR3.313 Cases have been ajudicated on Testicular cancer ,Esofegiel,Lukemia. Now we have logs and the docking #s that sailed into Da Nang. So there is a bouble standard going on here. Don,t give up, One of our Senators who is in support of this bill was shot down north of the DMZ. No boots on the ground! He ran for President.
CRT
June 24, 2009, 9:52am (report abuse)And there is no scientific that dioxin from the herbicides aver left the landmass.
Airdale
June 24, 2009, 3:49pm (report abuse)CRT, you have left 36 commets on just this one page, What will you do when the va out sorces your job to an informed person in India?
Please people check out the CDC's numbers of birth defects being much higher for blue water people. Non Hodgkin's Lymphomia, about 20% higher. Esoffegeal. 5% higher. All of the illnesses on the list are of a much higher risk For Marines and Sailors of the off shore Veterans. I know that this is my 3rd post and I shall not take up any more space. To those who hate the Navy, Marine Corps & Air Force This bill will not change your mind. But it could help many who would not have to die in total poverty. Please call your Senators and ask them to support this bill.
We will have well over 70 congressman signed on after the next posting. I beg you VOTE YES Thank you
Nelson8989
(logged in user) June 24, 2009, 5:57pm (report abuse)Airdale..where did you find the info about (I'm assuming you mean esophageal cancer?) I'm a little confused by your post. Are you saying these percentages were higher in bluewaternavy or boots on ground?
Nelson8989
(logged in user) June 24, 2009, 6:00pm (report abuse)VETREP,
I'm interested in the memo regarding esophageal cancers. How do I locate it?
Thanks,
Airdale
June 24, 2009, 8:56pm (report abuse)Nelson8989,
Sorry about My spelling. Yes the chance of developing some of these cancers are higher for people in the Navy. I was envolved in a case in El Paso where we prevailed and
got a guy approved after a long fight, I can't tell you much more on this sight because I am already getting enoying phone calls.
Contact Vietnam Veterans Bluewaternavy.com or it may be .org
I am sorry I can't give you my Name and e mail but the phone calls are bad enough. You are messing with the goons here. Not that it maters,No congressman or his veterans rep would spend any time reading this sight which is owned by the right wings and is dominated by so much hate, but vote yes
HooHaw
June 24, 2009, 9:13pm (report abuse)Yippee! Anybody want to buy an aluminum foil hat? Looks like we will all need one.
Robersabel
(logged in user) June 25, 2009, 11:41am (report abuse)Dualsportriderfl,
Could you provide the complete site?
http://www.viet-remf.net/The%20Exclusion%20of%20Thailand%20Veterans%20R... />
Robert
DIO
June 25, 2009, 5:43pm (report abuse)CRT you're entitled to your opinion but not your own facts. I've read just about all the science and bluewater vets were exposed. When dioxin is referred to it is 2,3,7,8TCDD. Doesn't matter how you were exposed. Read the dioxin reassessment, by EPA, so you know the ins and outs of this toxic. It is very transient and aerosolizes when heated. We knew as early as 1946 about what happens when many of these toxics are taken up and put through the codisstillation process(Operation Crossroads DNA 6032F). Some create dioxin such as DDT, fuels and pcb oils. This is why you don't take in water in fleet formation and why you don't get drinking water from inland waterways and harbors, except in extreme circumstances. As for studies here in the US impossible to get a fair one. Just look at Atomic Vets and the Ranchand study and there are many more. For your information the highest amount of dioxin in the world is on Guam where most of these pilots were from. It was and is still in the water.
CRT
June 25, 2009, 8:15pm (report abuse)DIO,
I'm not sure what pilots you are referring to when you say "Guam where most of these pilots were from". But if you are referring is Ranchhand pilots you are very much mistaken.
You state very clearly that there were several sources of dioxin onboard ship. Why then, if what you say is true, are the bluewaternavy types trying to prove Agent Orange exposure? Because it is a blanket that could be thrown over every one of them and they would not have to deal with proving individual exposure to dioxin. And that is plain and simple greed. Trying to grab money that is not deserved by making up reasons.
There is no scientific proof that the waters offshore were contaminated because NO tests have ever been done. NONE. NANA. ZERO. So you can pee and moan as much as you want about herbicides. And you can make up facts as much as you like. You just can't prove it. So no cigar and no money.
Dog
June 25, 2009, 8:33pm (report abuse)That is 37 commits. I have had to switch computers and name because mine has been cut off by the webmaster. Why not the VA employees?
...
June 25, 2009, 9:57pm (report abuse)Michael Jackson dies from agent orange
Thios
June 25, 2009, 10:46pm (report abuse)CRT dies from agent orange
webmaster
(logged in user) June 25, 2009, 11:08pm (report abuse)No commenter has been "cut off." "Dog," please use the "contact" form linked below if you wish to discuss any issues or figure out what troubles you may be having with the site.
grunt
June 26, 2009, 10:57am (report abuse)CRT lives in central Texas. We're getting close. Should have a street address soon. Then we can all visit him.
Semper Fi
DIO
June 26, 2009, 11:00am (report abuse)CRT you have no idea as to what you're talking about. You can't even follow the discussion. The B52 pilots are the ones I'm talking about. As for dioxin it is AO according to law. That is why the bluewater folks have done things the way that it is being done. There are many studies done on the sealife off the coast of Viet Nam and the many toxics in them. Cross contamination is well documented and what happens to it. Go to the shipyards and see for yourself what toxics are associated with service off Viet Nam when these ships are overhauled. It's all there. If you're a DVA employee you're a perfect example as to why the adminstative part of DVA is in shambles and has a backlog of almost a million cases. You don't have the knowledge to do these types of cases. Ignorance seems to be your calling card.
CRT
June 26, 2009, 12:10pm (report abuse)Just how in the hell did B-52 pilots get into the discussion? Do you think they flew througha cloud of herbicide? I wasn't aware that they flew at 100 ft above the deck while over Vietnam.
Check your assumptions - Dioxin is, according to the science, the component in the herbicides that is of concern here. It is a by-product of the process that created the herbicides.
Navy ships were a huge stewpot of toxic chemicals, none of which were a result of sailing in any particular area. That is just how it was then. Take a look at a ship of the same era, from the same shipyard, that didn't visit the south china sea and you will find the same problems. Now how does that wash with your claims that the contamination came from the herbicides?
You can make up crap as long as you want. You can shout it over and over. That still doesn't make it true.
DIO
June 26, 2009, 2:33pm (report abuse)Wrong again CRT. HR 2254 covers the aircrews who visited the airspace of Viet Nam, namely the B-52 pilots. Well you have a little of the science regarding herbs and dioxin. But it's the heating process that creates the dioxin, hence aerisolizes and became transient in situations like the environment, per the dioxin reassessment. When it cools it returns to earth or over the waters offshore of Viet Nam carried by winds. As for ships in shipyards wrong again, you're on a roll though. They did use organo tin paints on all ships back then. But your birdfarms, some of which did AO missions, had their flightdecks impregnated from the herbs. That's over and above the pesticides in the paint. What about the transport ships that carried it? Guess you forgot. When I spoke of dioxin and AO as the same according to law, what didn't you understand, the 3 letter word law. Look up the Dioxin and Radiation Act of 1984(not the complete title) that will get you there. You really should follow things.
Dunkin
June 26, 2009, 3:01pm (report abuse)CRT..are you a vietnam vet? If so,
where did u serve? What branch of the service and were you combat?Thanks
CRT
June 26, 2009, 4:06pm (report abuse)SIO,
If your ignorance wasn't so pitiful it would be funny. No carrier was ever involved in spraying herbicides. You can't even string things together in a coherent thought. If you had a brain you would take it out and play with it. Or maybe not since it would be smaller than a marble.
Dunkin
June 26, 2009, 5:59pm (report abuse)CRT..
How did I know that you would not answer my question? You are not a vet, atleast not a proud vet, or you would have rambled on about it. You have NO idea what any veteran goes through so it's time for you to keep your mouth shut. It would not surprise me if you were the one who spit on my husband when he returned from Vietnam. Your ignorant comments are disgusting and from all of your posts here I can only assume you have nothing else going on in your life but to sit at your little computer and try to make yourself feel big. Head's up..it's not working.
DIO
June 27, 2009, 12:54pm (report abuse)Last post for me. Please everyone get behind HR2254 and other legislation extending presumption to veterans exposed to dioxin and these pesticides. One last question for the antidrift people. Why are dioxin and pesticides at the North Pole?
CRT
June 27, 2009, 1:36pm (report abuse)Well they sure as hell didn't come from herbicides in Vietnam. Look at your own statements about how dioxin is produced and then think about the rise of heated air. Is it likely that these elements actually entered the upper air jets and ended up at the North Pole? Could be, if you listen to what scientist have to say.
CRT
June 27, 2009, 1:38pm (report abuse)And just in case it hasn't entered your mind yet, can you name more than five places in the world where dioxin is not found?
Sandy
June 27, 2009, 1:44pm (report abuse)I don't have a dog in this fight but just to add some information readers night take a look at:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dioxin
According to this dioxin can also occur from natural causes, such as volcanoes and forest fires. The effluents from both of these events are often found thousands of miles from the point of origin. Perhaps there are actually some scientific explanations for some of the discovery of these substances in far-flung areas.
DIO
June 27, 2009, 2:49pm (report abuse)I went back on my word. I believe there are 75 different dioxins and all are measured against TCDD(dioxin). 2,3,7,8TCDD isn't naturally occuring. Mountain regions are also places of cooling. As dioxin cools it comes back to earth. Our forest service has been using pesticides for decades (See the cancellation notice for 2,4,5-T and 2,4,5-TPsilvex). The Wiki post is a corporate post of brainwash and certainly doesn't cover any topic well. And you still don't get it CRT, you just made the arguemnt for dioxin leaving the landmass of Viet Nam. You're right about one thing CRT, dioxin is everywhere and there are many sources for it and that makes the argument for bluewater. I might add the EPA has determined there is no safe level of dioxin.
CRT
June 27, 2009, 5:23pm (report abuse)The bluewaternavy argument is that the dioxin MUST have come from the herbicides sprayed in Vietnam. Now you say that it occurs everywhere but that the dioxin on the ships had to come from Vietnam. So which is it? Or are you just one of those who picks and chooses the "facts" that fit your agenda. As to Sandy's use of Wikipedia information, I don't know how good it is but I certainly don't dismiss it out-of-hand as "a corporate post of brainwash" without at least considering the possiblity that it has merit. But then if it doesn't agree with what YOU want everyone to believe it must be wrong. BS.
And yes, you did go back on your word. Typical.
Airdale
June 27, 2009, 7:01pm (report abuse)Hey you Grunt,
You may find Waco Texas , the sherdding caitol of claims in the w
orld. Semper Fi
MisterJones
June 28, 2009, 7:43pm (report abuse)CRT,I would like very much to meet you and give you a little introduction of advanced combat.If you have the balls(WHICH I DOUBT)jUST GIVE ME A WAY TO CONTACT YOU.Have you ever delt with an airbourne ranger?You will.
Grunt
June 28, 2009, 8:35pm (report abuse)Hey CRT, MisterJones, is offering you an opportunity to put a big one down your little weaselly throat. You have a very big mouth. It might fit.
FrankGQ
June 30, 2009, 10:45pm (report abuse)What Happened to everyone this bill still needs to Pass as soon as possable to help a lot of people recover and live better lives not in fear of living on the streets of this country i for one served in thailand with air america covered up for how many years it didnt exist wrong vet that served in county of vetnam were not effected by agent orange couldnt get help for almost 30 years and hand sprayer set next to my desk in ground suport area of field maintance squidran in the age area to prove it is inpossable this is provable insulin depent diabetic strarting only 4 years after discharge from airforce little bit early for the average person well any way it is time to get this done thank you
Frank
JC
July 1, 2009, 12:16am (report abuse)Frank,
It looks like some of them just want a place to show their backsides, making threats and being stupid. I doubt that most of them care one way or the other about the bill.
SoTrue
July 2, 2009, 8:02am (report abuse)"About Vietnam...The tragedy, indeed the immorality of those years, was that
for the first time in our history, our country and it's government failed to
match the heroic sacrifices of our men in the field...This must never happen
again."
--President Ronald Reagan
DIO
July 2, 2009, 3:28pm (report abuse)Reagan, what a piece of work he was. He hated veterans and expressed his disdain on more than one occasion. According to him veterans already got too much and Viet Nam vets are crybabies. His adminsration altered the AO studies(Ranchand), changed the science and rigged the AO lawsuit brought by veterans exposed to these chemical weapons. We would not be here today if it weren't for him. Bluewater wouldn't exist and all veterans exposed to these chemical weapons would have their service connection for their illnesses. All site cancers, heart disease, neurodegenerative disease and a host of others. And science would have their reputation back, at least on the issue of dioxin.
Thankyou Ronny