H.R. 924 would require the Food and Drug Administration to permit the sale of baby turtles as pets so long as the seller uses proven methods to effectively treat salmonella.
Detailed Summary
Domestic Pet Turtle Market Access Act of 2007 - Prohibits the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) from restricting the sale by a turtle farmer or other commercial retail seller of a turtle that is less than 10.2 centimeters in diameter as a pet if: (1) the turtle is raised, shipped, and sold using methods proven to keep the turtle free of salmonella, using salmonella safety standards comparable to standards for other animals allowed for sale as pets or animal products allowed for sale as food products; (2) the FDA has approved a plan submitted by the turtle farmer or seller relating to compliance with this Act; and (3) the farmer or seller makes certain disclosures to the buyer. Sets forth required disclosures, which include: (1) information regarding the dangers that could result if the turtle is not properly handled and safely maintained, the proper handling of the turtle, and the proven methods of treatment that keep the turtle safe from salmonella; (2) a detailed explanation of how to properly treat the turtle to keep it safe from salmonella; and (3) a statement that buyers of pet turtles should not abandon the turtle or abandon it outside, but should instead return them to a commercial retail pet seller or other organization that would accept turtles no longer wanted as pets.
Requires the turtle farmer or seller to submit a plan to the FDA that includes use of non-antibiotic compounds that suppress or eliminate the presence of salmonella in turtle hatchlings. Directs the FDA to accept or reject such a plan within 30 days.
Status of the Legislation
Latest Major Action: 2/9/2007: Referred to House subcommittee. Status: Referred to the Subcommittee on Health.
Points in Favor
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Points Against
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Visitor Comments
Torin Monahan, Ph.D.
May 18, 2007, 11:25am (report abuse)This is a bad bill. Apart from the health concerns, this bill would guarantee the mistreatment and death of numerous turtles. Caring for red-eared sliders takes a significant amount of work and expense. They require very specific environments of half land and half water, UV lights, and constant filtration of their tanks. Without a doubt, many baby turtles would be given to children ill-equipped to take care of these demanding pets. Moreover, the factory-turtle-farms wherein these certified "salmonella free" turtles would be hatched would undoubtedly be as cruel and inhumane as other factory farms. One should raise the question of why this bill is being introduced now. Which factory-farm pet corporations are giving campaign contributions or other gifts to lawmakers? Who are those lawmakers? And what are the contributions? One would be better off supporting turtle rescue organizations than this bill.
Becky
May 21, 2007, 8:33am (report abuse)The children will not be ill- equipped to take care of these turtles. There will be a kit that will come with each turtle on how to care for the turtles. As a turtle farmer we do not mistreat our animals. I dont know what kind of doctor you are but even with humans there are some inhumane things that take place. Such as abortion. This is a human life that is being killed, and there are bills that allow this. That is as inhumane as they get. There are 4" turtles on the pet market that are raised the same way and are more dangerous because they bite. No one is paying lawmakers or making contribution. The place that the most of the turtles are being raised are in a rural parish called Catahoula. The turtle farmers are not making enough money to pay any one off. Turtle farmers are hard working people. We believe this will be a great bill. We have come a long way and all we are asking is a chance to make a living not just to survive. Thanks.
Alan
May 25, 2007, 7:55pm (report abuse)Why is this an FDA issue? Pet turtles aren't being sold as food. *Maybe* Dept Agriculture, but even then, it shouldn't be something as specific as turtles. If anything, it should be something like a legalese version of "any animal sold as a pet must be raised humanely and sold with information about proper care and risks associated with the animal".
Glynda
June 14, 2007, 8:09pm (report abuse)My family owns a turtle farm in Catahoula Parish. Even though the labor is difficult, I can assure you that these turtles are not being harmed in any way. These turtles are also being treated for salmonella and ,currently, cannot be sold overseas as pets without passing salmonella tests. If this bill passes, many farmers in our area would finally have the chance to break even. We've invested a lot in this market and believe the time has come for us to finally be rewarded for all of our hard work. The problems that once plagued this market have been taken care of, and I cannot think of one good reason as to why these creatures should not be sold legally in the US market today.
Brenda Hilley, administrator Happy Turtles Pub Forum
June 17, 2007, 4:53am (report abuse)Obviously the turtle farms in Catahoula Parish treat their animals MUCH better than places such as TurtleSale.com. However, unless the "kit that will come with each turtle" includes a 100+ gal tank, a beefy filter and very clear instructions for feeding and lighting, YES, the turtles will suffer a slow and agonizing death at the hands of youngsters whose parents think the turtle will be fine and not grow so large as long as they are kept in a plastic lagoon (deathbowl) or a "HUGE" 10 gallon tank. At best many of those turtles who survive their near death experience will be released into the wild to take over the area from native species.
Kim Brown
June 17, 2007, 10:06am (report abuse)Alan, you speak of something that is way more important than the salmonella risk and I was thinking the exact same thing. It is really up to the breeders and pet store employees to give proper care information to the potential owners of these pets. Unfortunately, most pet store employees don't know any more than the person walking in the door, many times much less. I would really hate to see this bill passed and not because of the salmonella risk, but just simply because the chances of the turtles being cared for properly is very slim.
Sabrina
June 18, 2007, 8:55am (report abuse)There are 78 turtle farms in Louisiana - a $9.4 million industry. That sounds like more than 'breaking even' to me.
Turtles require an extensive amount of time and money, and their care and maintenance is a huge responsibility for anyone – let alone children. I’m not against this because of the salmonella, I’m against it because children aren’t able to provide proper care and there are too many unwanted RES as it is. If people want a pet turtle, then there are plenty of unwanted turtles who need to be adopted.. continued..
Sabrina
June 18, 2007, 8:56am (report abuse)People buy a baby turtle because it's small and cute, but then because novelty wears off or they decide they no longer can care for it, they add to the population of unwanted RES, or worse-released to the wild, which upsets the ecosystem and diminishes the native turtle population by introducing parasites and diseases as well as competing for food and resources. Wildlife Associations and the Humane Society of the United States are against this bill - and for very good reason.
Beth
June 22, 2007, 9:58am (report abuse)I am against the whole bill. There are so many turtles released into the wild, which upsets the ecosystem. IF the turtles do survive,most are not properly cared for. There are many who actually do the research & provide proper care for them. It is not easy or inexpensive. People also need to be aware that they are NOT DISPOSABLE pets. If properly cared for, they can live up to 25 - 30 years. That is not something to be taken lightly. They are already sold in petstores and the employees are completely uneducated in the proper care. I picked up a care sheet from a petstore chain and was horrified by the information given.
It is horrible to know there are already, probably thousands that are dying as we speak, due to improper care and now the turtle farmers out there are going to make a huge profit off of the death of even more. VERY, VERY SAD.
Beth
June 22, 2007, 9:59am (report abuse)To Becky. I don't know why you think you have to throw in comments about abortion. This has absolutely nothing to do with that and you should find the proper place to make your comments. The subject here is about the lives of millions of turtles.
Z
June 22, 2007, 4:00pm (report abuse)I can't believe Congress even deals with crap like this when we have major issues like immigration, energy, and healthcare.
Melinda
June 22, 2007, 7:01pm (report abuse)Just for the record, Louisiana turtle farmers are already licensed by the La. Department of Agriculture for a handsome fee, undergo yearly inspections of their farms, and are the only state to have any regulations about proper care and distribution of baby turtles. The industry contributes monies to our local ecomony in many ways: paying local employees, buying feed, paying maintenance costs, and buying stock turtles from local fishermen, just to mention a few. Also the turtles have to be tested at a local lab before any sales can take place. So do not take the turtle industry lightly and do not believe for an instant that there are no black market turtles being sold right now with no regulations. We only want to see an industry that is already in place ran with actual regulations.
h
June 24, 2007, 2:27pm (report abuse)Beth, there are many pets that are mistreated every day around the world. Turtle farmers can not go in every house hold and teach children how to take care of their pets. The pet stores can provide instructions and materials for these turtles. I know the subject is about turtles, the comment about abortion was to make a point to the Dr. that human life verses pet life.
BW
July 7, 2007, 9:34am (report abuse)I have to agree with Melinda. The bill is not to allow the sale of baby turtles because they are already being sold. You can buy truck loads of baby turtles on the black market that have not been treated or tested for salmonella, no instructions on how to care for them, or how to prevent salmonella. If the bill passes it will only give some type of control and decrease the possibility of salmonella. The final thing is it will be the only reptile sold as a pet that has had any type of prevention or control for salmonella. It is by far not fair to allow other reptiles to be sold as pets that have a lot higher risk of having diseases and have had no type of prevention or control. It is punishment for the turtle producers for trying to do what is right.
BW
July 7, 2007, 9:38am (report abuse)Oh by the way everyone look at the sponsored links on the right of this page and see how many baby turtles you can buy!!!!
private turtle keeper
July 11, 2007, 4:38pm (report abuse)The fact of the matter is that there is no more reason to ban the sale of baby turtles than there is any other kind of animal that is currently considered legal and suitable for keeping as a pet.
Feral dogs and cats are harmful to native fauna and animals shelters are literally overrun with strays, most of which end up euthanized. Turtles are no different in that respect, except that most turtles don't get euthanized.
Disease transmission is not unique to turtles either. Virtually any domesticated species can harbor and transmit dangerous diseases to humans if simple, basic hygiene is ignored. Banning baby turtles on that basis is ridiculous.
The responsibility falls upon the owner or the parent if the owner is a minor - period.
The ban has done no justice for turtles OR people. It certainly hasn't prevented anyone who really wants a baby turtle from getting one. All the law has really done is create a terribly negative stigma around turtles in general that is unjustified.
Christy
July 15, 2007, 7:31pm (report abuse)The men and women who run these turtle farms are very devoted people. I know quite a few of the farmers in Louisiana!!! They treat the stock turtles, eggs, and baby turtles with great care. These animals are not harmed in any way. The turtle farmers definitely know their business and work harder than most anyone I know. If you disagree, then I think you should visit a turtle farm in Louisiana. You might see things a little differently. These men and women just want to be able to sale their turtles within the United States. After all, they do provide jobs for individuals within the communities, they pay taxes just like the rest of us, and they have rules and regulations they have to abide by just like any other business. I think this bill should be passed. In my opinion, the sale of pet turtles in the United States is no different than the sale of any other reptile or animal for the purpose of being a pet.
Christy
July 15, 2007, 7:41pm (report abuse)This comment is for Sabrina. It looks like you did your homework on what the turtle industry makes each year!!! Did you figure in what the labor, feed, electricity, restocking fees, business licenses, equipment, etc. to conduct this business also costs? That $9.4 million will be cut tremendously. Most of these farmers really do just break even when the final count comes in. Besides, who wants to have a business that doesn't make any money. I don't blame the turtle farmers for trying to better their business. They sound like business men and women to me!!!
Karl
August 24, 2007, 2:35pm (report abuse)Sabrina, I hate to say, but that's an ignorant comment. As Christy noted, there are hefty costs associated with running a business. Paying wages is the highest cost, but all of the fixed costs and fees eat into it as well. If you do the math on the numbers your provided, that is about $125,000 of income, NOT profit, per farm. After you take out who knows how much costs, this is a family trying to make a living you're talking about.
And to the person who accused a Congressman of introducing this legislation in exchange for kickbacks from some contributors... give me a break. What a joke that a poor parrish in Louisiana is going to be able to contribute anything. Maybe, consider this: Is it possible, just possible, that this guy was trying to do something right for his constituents? We can argue about whether it's a good idea, but it was probably well intentioned.
Shawn
January 7, 2008, 3:49pm (report abuse)I realize this is now a dated discussion, but I thought I'd add a bit here. First off a small matter- Louisiana is not the only state with turtle farms run by hard working people who care for their turtles very well. Other states such as Florida, Georgia, Mississippi, Arkansas etc. have turtle farms who's businesses are no less important than that of Louisiana's. Our states do not yet have programs as well developed as LA's for certifying Salmonalla Free turtles, but we all can and do treat for salmonella and have our turtles tested by a state lab prior to sale. Our farm in particular is Certified Aquaculture and we follow best management practices.
As for the ban on 4" turtles in the U.S., I know it is a waste of law enforcements time and resources and is not worth the paper it has been written on.
Continued..
January 7, 2008, 3:51pm (report abuse)All reptiles can and do carry salmonella, just as birds do- in particular chickens, which we not only handle we also consume. All pets carry risks in one way or another and it is the potential owners responsibility to research care and ultimately- care for them properly. Turtles are woderful pets with charming personalities and are no more or less dangerous than a dog or cat.. period. Actually I am sure that the percentage of turtle owners being harmed by their pets as compared with cat or dog or horse owners would be far less.
Lastly, when do we finally say enough is enough when it comes to the government regulating our basic freedoms? I am no anarchist and think we have a wonderful government but I think that if some of you out there feel strongly against owning a small turtle or letting your child handle one- then don't buy one!!!
But don't tell me or anyone else what they can or can't buy for a pet.. how absolutely and totally pretensious!
continued
January 7, 2008, 3:52pm (report abuse)One last thing. My family and I and all of our employees who have lived and worked with and handled hundreds of thousands of hatchling and adult turtles have never ever had Salmonellsis. Nor have any members of the 5 other farms we are close with.What are the odds??!!
Mark
April 21, 2008, 3:54pm (report abuse)Lets not think of just Red eared sliders, this will also allow for the breeding and sale of rare, unusual, and unique species of turtles. This will further education, knowledge, and awareness of different species. Also, it will create a stock of turtles as an 'insurance' of the extinction in nature. Several species of turtles in China are already extinct in nature, and would be extinct all together, if not for private breeders. I know the FDA allows for private breeding and sale, but what if you have a red-spotted amazon turtle pair that produced 20 eggs, and you sold them for $500 each (market value). Having one pair of adult breeders, does that make you a business? Having $10,000 in sales, does that make you a business? Each state interprets and prosecutes the law based on judgement, and removing the ban will protect the hobbyist who works with more exclusive species.
mark
April 21, 2008, 3:54pm (report abuse)If turtles are banned, so so should dogs and cats. Turtles can transmit only salmonella to humans. Dogs and cats can transmit salmonella and several dozen other dangerous diseases such as rabis. Dogs and cats are allowed to run feral. Its is estimated 10 Million song birds are killed by house cats kept out doors. Look at what house cats have done to Australia. Feral turtles do less damage than other feral domestic animals. For exampe, feral goats and pigs have whiped out numerious species of animals on remote islands. Also, cats and dogs are turned into animal shelters all the time. If this becomes a problem with turtles, the freeze them.