H.R. 6562 would amend title 38, United States Code, relating to presumptions of exposure for veterans who served in the vicinity of Vietnam.
Detailed Summary
Agent Orange Equity Act of 2008 - Includes as part of the Republic of Vietnam, for purposes of the presumption of service connection for diseases associated with exposure by veterans to certain herbicide agents while in Vietnam, such Republic's inland waterways, waters offshore, and airspace above.
Status of the Legislation
Latest Major Action: 7/22/2008: Referred to House committee. Status: Referred to the House Committee on Veterans' Affairs.
Points Against
Here is a scenario for discussion. This is based on a very liberal set of probabilities but is provided as a means to stimulate discussion.
An area of the South China Sea 20 miles by 800 miles would equal 16,000 square miles. This would extend from the shoreline to 20 miles out, an area that some claim is the operating range of many of the ships. This is smaller than the area actually occupied by US navy ships but is used to simplify the calculations and give the benefit to close in to shore ships. If we consider a larger area the concentration of dioxin would be even lower.
At an average depth of 200 feet (considering the slope of the seabed floor away from land, this would amount to 89,210,880,000,000 cubic feet of water. That equates to 669,081,600,000,000 gallons, or 5,687,193,600,000,000 pounds, of sea water by volume.
By the most speculative account available an estimated 1320 pounds of dioxin was sprayed and/or spilled during the entire 10 year period of defoliation operations.
An extremely liberal estimate would be that perhaps half of this total, or 660 pounds, ran off into the rivers and streams. Of that, an estimated 50 percent of that actually reached the South China Sea, an amount equal to 330 pounds total. Since dioxin is nearly insoluble it would have attached to sediment. There would certainly be significant sediment settling as the water moved downstream.
Of the 330 pounds that reached the sea an estimated one-half, or 165 pounds, of that would have been at a depth to be pulled into the water intakes, given that there would be further settling of the sediment that contained the dioxin after it reached the sea.
At the end of the 10 year period, if all the above were true and there was no loss of dioxin to other causes (an illogical assumption), the ratio of dioxin in the sea water pulled into the ship systems would be one part dioxin to 34,467,840,000,000 parts sea water. That's 1 part dioxin to 34.467 trillion parts water.
That is one ounce of dioxin in 34.467 trillion ounces of water at the end of the entire 10 year period. There is no sailor who claims to have been within 20 miles of the shore for the entire 10 year period and therefore no sailor would have been exposed to anywhere near this amount. Remember also, this is using the most liberal assumptions to make the calculations and not allowing for any other losses of dioxin content other that settling.
Some things to consider:
It is unlikely that half the total dioxin introduced during the 10 year period actually ended up in the rivers and estuaries. The current studies of the Vietnamese landscape indicate that a significant amount remains on land. The likely amount that actually drifted out to sea is much smaller but using this figure gives a greater benefit to the bluewater navy position.
There was certainly a larger loss of dioxin than just that allowed for from sediment settling. Current flow and other factors would certainly have added to the dilution of the total amount of dioxin in the area outlined.
Since the dioxin was actually introduced over a 10 year period, and we have no true measure of how much was introduced each year, it is impossible to say what the level of dioxin was in the South China Sea at any given time. However it would have certainly been considerably less than the one part in 34.467 trillion shown above as an estimated total for the 10 year period.
Points in Favor
Setting aside the flawed assumptions that the "Against" commenter bases his/her argument on (e.g., contrary to the "Against" commenter's assumption, the majority of US Navy ships came well within 20 miles of the coastline of Vietnam, often to within a few thousand yards or less and many of which anchored in its harbors), his calculations, even as tiny as the levels seem to be, do, in fact show that blue water Navy Vietnam veterans were exposed to potentially harmful levels of dioxen. Simply compare the "Against" commenter's exposure calculation of 1 part of dioxen to 34.467 trillion (12 zeroes) parts of water to the EPA safe level of 13 parts of dioxen to 1 quintillion (18 zeroes) parts of water. See the Agency for Toxic Subtance and Disease Registry:
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/NER/DIOXIN/dxn1996.html
And the blue water Navy Vietnam veterans exposure to dioxen was not a one-time event, since it was normal for each ship to spend many months in the Gulf of Tonkin, often within 3 miles or closer to shore, during which time the crews would have been constantly exposed - drinking and showering in the contaminated water which their ship's produced and eating food cooked in the contaminated water.
Finally, the "against" commenter's unstated assumption that the dioxen content of the water at 20 miles from shore is equivalent to the dioxen content at, for example, 3 miles from shore is fatally flawed.
Visitor Comments
tom
December 14, 2008, 1:20am (report abuse)the vet;
GOODIE!!!!!
I'M SO EXCITED YOU AND I HAVE ONE!!!!
BY THE BY............
TOM
December 14, 2008, 1:42am (report abuse)SM2;
SEE WHAT I MEAN
ABOUT THE ATTACKS?
AS LONG AS THE INFO GETS TO EVEN JUST ONE PERSON,ITS WORTH IT TO ME.
I TAKE SATISFACTION IN THE FACT THAT IT AGREVATES THE HELL OUT OF THE JACKELS.IT MAKES THEM INEFFECTIVE IN STOPPING THE FLOW OF INFORMATION.
THEY HAVE NO IDEA HOW PRECIOUS AMERICANS TAKE THE 1ST.
THE AMAZING PART IS THAT THEY THINK
THEY CAN BULLY VETS TO BE SILENT IF WE HAVE INFO TO PASS.
sm2
December 15, 2008, 9:05am (report abuse)Looks like someone lacks intelligence and integity. I have learned to ignore whoever the jackels are. Love to toss them
something to keep them alive. They seem to get off on trying too aggravate guys like us and it does not work with me anymore.
Maybe Santa will bring them some touys to play with and leave the rest of the group alone.
sm2
December 16, 2008, 2:20pm (report abuse)What's a "touy"?
..
December 17, 2008, 2:16pm (report abuse)A "touy" is like your birth certificate;
A typo.
SM2
December 19, 2008, 10:26am (report abuse)I see where they finally approved Non Hodgkins Lymphona as a approved disability for the Blue Water Navy. I saw someone die a misrable death with that.
Now I wonder how long it will take to approve the other cancers associated with the Agent Orange Compensation Act of 1991. They also just approved cancer of the Esophogus. Looks like maybe they are seeing the light that was once at the end of the tunnel.
Happy Holidays to the true Blue water combat veterans that made a dangerous contribution in a very
unpopular conflict.
tom
December 20, 2008, 7:11pm (report abuse)hr6798
you should go there and post this good news.They need some.
enjoy the holidays SM2,
ALL MY BEST.
John R.
December 21, 2008, 11:26am (report abuse)SM2,
Could you tell me where to find information about cancer of the esophogus? I have a friend who might be able to get benefits for this. Thanks.
John R.
sm2
December 23, 2008, 10:15am (report abuse)John R
Go to the Bluewaternavysite
it is always updated. Google it
Good Luck FrankDZNS7
sm2
December 23, 2008, 10:18am (report abuse)John R
go to navy@bluewaternavy.org
John R.
December 23, 2008, 1:58pm (report abuse)Thanks. I took a look there and everything I found is old decisions by BVA. As I understand it, individual decisions by BVA do not set precedent so I'm not sure it will help my friend.
tom
December 23, 2008, 4:29pm (report abuse)hr6798
try that pending bill.
john r.
the people there could help you......
John R.
December 24, 2008, 3:23pm (report abuse)Tom,
I didn't see much there except a bunch of people throwing rocks back and forth. Guess I will look elsewhere.
Thanks.
SM2
December 26, 2008, 2:12pm (report abuse)Unless I am missing something ...
the Bluewateravy.org website is the most up to date site that have seen. Explore a bit deeper. Alot of work goes into presenting that data to the veterans fighting for their rights
John R.
December 26, 2008, 3:26pm (report abuse)SM2
There may be things available to members that are not out in public. The things I saw were nothing new.
Bill
December 29, 2008, 8:20am (report abuse)John R.
A site I find very useful is www.vawatchdog.org. Once there, open link "Jim Strickland's - VA BENEFITS GUIDE & HOW TO FILE A VA CLAIM." He provides very sound and useful information. You can also email him from that site with specific questions. Good Luck.