H.R. 254 would enhance Federal enforcement of hate crimes.
Detailed Summary
David Ray Hate Crimes Prevention Act of 2007 or David's Law - Amends the federal criminal code to impose penalties for willfully causing bodily injury to any person or, through the use of fire, a firearm, or an explosive device, attempting to cause such injury, whether or not acting under color of law, because of the actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, or disability of any person, where the offense is in or affects interstate or foreign commerce.
Directs the U.S. Sentencing Commission to study the issue of adult recruitment of juveniles to commit hate crimes and, if appropriate, to amend the federal sentencing guidelines to provide sentencing enhancements for such an offense.
Requires the Administrator of the Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention of the Department of Justice (DOJ) to make grants to state and local programs designed to combat hate crimes committed by juveniles.
Authorizes appropriations to the Department of the Treasury and to DOJ for FY2007-FY2009 to increase the number of personnel to protect against criminal interference with federally-protected activities.
Status of the Legislation
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Points in Favor
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Points Against
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Visitor Comments
Repent America
Repent America Denounces Proposed Federal Hate Crimes Bill
Contact: Michael Marcavage, director, Repent America, 1-800-3-REPENT, Ext. 5
PHILADELPHIA - Repent America (RA) has joined in the fight against the newly proposed hate crimes bill now before the U.S. House of Representatives, and is calling Christians to pray for this emergency situation and to voice opposition to their elected officials.
Earlier this month, Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee (D-Texas) introduced H.R. 254, which calls for the establishment of a new federal offense for so-called hate crimes. The bill is similar to hate crimes measures passed by the House in 2005 and the Senate in 2004, which would commission a separate federal criminal prosecution for state offenses tried under its provisions. If convicted, an offender could face life in prison.
"The proposed federal hate crimes bill is a dangerous threat to our civil liberties," stated Repent America director Michael Marcavage. "Having been charged under Pennsylvania's hate crimes law for declaring the truth about homosexuality, I can assure you that if this bill is passed and signed into law, it will be used to put Christians behind bars," Marcavage continued.
In October of 2004, eleven Christians with Repent America were arrested while ministering the Gospel on the public streets of Philadelphia at a publicly-funded celebration of homosexuality called "OutFest." After spending 21 hours in jail, District Attorney Lynne Abraham's office charged them under Pennsylvania's hate crimes law called "Ethnic Intimidation," along with a host of other felony and misdemeanor charges. These charges were later dismissed; however, if the Christians had been convicted, they would have faced up to 47 years in prison and $90,000 in fines each.
"H.R. 254 is nothing more than an attempt to provide federal prosecutors with the ammunition to police our thoughts, which will ultimately lead to the death of the First Amendment," Marcavage said. "This bill is unnecessary, unconstitutional, and simply un-American," he continued. "Christians must pray and respond to this emergency situation by urging their representatives to vote against this dangerous bill," Marcavage concluded.
Repent America is currently challenging the unconstitutional manner in which Pennsylvania's hate crimes law was passed. This case is expected to head to trial later this year.
For more information, please visit:
http://www.repentamerica.com
Ted Pike
In 2004, eleven Christians were arrested and jailed in Philadelphia for the “hate crime” of peaceful evangelism at a gay pride parade. For the full story, visit www.truthtellers.org
Hate Laws End Free Speech. In Canada, a Christian was fined $6,000 for printing 3 Bible verses against homosexuality. A newspaper was fined $6,000 for accepting his ad. A Christian printer was fined $5,000 for refusing to print stationery for homosexual activists. He was bankrupted after spending $175,000 contesting the charge. A Christian was fined $35,000 for distributing “hate literature”--tracts critical of homosexuality. Church school administrators were forced to hire a known homosexual, under threat of prison. A pastor was told it’s a “hate crime” to hand out gospel tracts, punishable by prison.
In Australia, two Christians were indicted for criticizing Islam, another for criticizing Zionism.
In Britain, two political activists were indicted, facing 7 years in prison, for describing Islam as a “wicked faith.” A filmmaker was threatened with arrest for using the term “homosexual” rather than “gay.” In Sweden, a pastor faced prison for reading from the pulpit Scriptures critical of homosexuality. In Holland, it’s now a “hate crime” to criticize fornicators and adulterers.
In Germany, a Catholic priest faces jail for the “hate crime” of publicly criticizing abortionists.
In Canada, Australia, and most of Europe, it’s now a “hate crime” to publicly criticize protected groups including homosexuals, Muslims, and Jews. Truth is not allowed as evidence in hate crimes trials. All that matters are the delicate feelings of members of federally protected groups. A homosexual can claim emotional damage from hearing Scripture that describes his lifestyle as an abomination. He can press charges against the pastor or broadcaster who merely reads the Bible in public. The “hater” can be fined thousands of dollars and even imprisoned!
Think this can’t happen in America?
Think again. The Anti-Defamation League of B’nai B’rith, architect of “anti-hate” laws worldwide, will reintroduce its federal hate bill this winter. ADL says the purpose of the “Hate Crimes Prevention Act” is to end violent physical hate crimes.
That’s just what ADL told lawmakers in Canada, Britain, Sweden, etc. Soon after ADL’s hate bill was passed, it broadened through legal precedents to outlaw “verbal violence” against protected groups. Laws passed to end violent hate crimes soon criminalized free speech.
The problem is hate laws’ twisted definition of hate. ADL, which presently administers the US government’s hate crimes enforcement program, says “hate” equals bias against federally protected groups, particularly homosexuals. What document is most biased against homosexuality? The Holy Bible. All lovers of free speech are threatened, but Bible-believing Christians are the ultimate target of ADL’s distorted definitions of hate and hate crimes.
Supporters of “anti-hate” legislation claim there’s an epidemic of hate in America.
Yet the FBI’s 2005 Uniform Crime Report shows alleged hate crimes comprise a tiny 1/15 of 1% of all crime in America. This is hardly a crisis requiring a vast federal thought crimes bureaucracy with unlimited power to invade state law enforcement.
Also, at least 95% of so-called hate crimes reported to the FBI have never been tried in court. Most are nothing but police opinions about verbal “intimidation,” name calling, and petty assault and vandalism.
We don't need an "anti-hate" law; it will destroy our freedom! Visit www.truthtellers.org to learn more.
Harmony Grant
If a federal hate law were passed, free expression across the political spectrum would be threatened. What would happen to blasphemous art like Piss Christ or South Park, to Ann Coulter or Al Franken, to Christians protesting sodomy or homosexuals attacking the Bible? Every American, from left-leaning feminists to red state Republicans, should protest “anti-hate” legislation. If Rosie O’Donnell were an Icelander, she could have been prosecuted for verbal “assault” for her recent statement that radical Christianity is as dangerous as radical Islam. Political activists in nations with hate laws have already been indicted for criticizing Islam, Zionism, and homosexuality. Hate laws threaten your freedom to speak your mind, no matter what’s on it.
MSGT JOHN CORREA
Homosexuals are well known to engage in sexual filth which are totally abnormal. In fact, they can best be described as individuals with a "sexual physiological mental disorder" which can be treated through counciling. More importantly, in accordance with the U.S. Center for Disease Control and Prevention, homosexuals have the propensity to generate, spread, and promote various diseases to others in America, as well as the rest of the human race throughout the world.
Furthermore, they are vehemently pushing for same-sex marriage, and /or civil union for the purpose of procuring medical coverages to pay for their self-inflicted sexual diseases.
If you don't believe what I am telling everyone,make your own inquiries through the U.S. Center for Disease Control and Prevention, and learn that there is a comback of "syphilis, gonorrhea, and Chlamydia. There is currently a decline in pregnacy amongst teenage girls in this country, and the reason for this trend is because they are engages in annuls sex. Now there is an increase in Chlamydia among these young girls-courtesy of homosexuals that have said, "its perfectly OK to experience annuls sex. Need I go further into the abnoral sexual aberrent behavior as practiced by homosexuals?
hetrosexual christian
if this bill passes i assume that a civil war/revolution will happen soon, very soon.
the beast is about to be unleashed in america and there will be a holy war in america. the spirit of anti-christ is become more and more powerful and if this bill passes, america will not be a democracy it will become a complete police state.
i pray god will not let this bill pass or anything like it pass. i feel no hate for homosexuals but they are for this bill then your are my moral enemy and i have no moral quams in saying they are satanic and should be be considered terrorists. our governement is a satanic crypocracy a i think out government is out to get us. the jews, homosexuals and others of the ADL are terrorists.
D. Wildman
Fast forward 100 years...2107...
Each generation changes our nation...the 1960's brought us what we have now. Will we be the North American Union? What kind of legacy are we creating for our children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren?
M Paul
Look at these comments! Seriously, what’s more apt to describe persons unable to see the personhood of others. “Homosexuals...engage in sexual filth.” “The jews, homosexuals and others of the ADL are terrorists.” ??? What?! Prime examples of blanket statements where every member of a group is the group and each and all represent something vile.
A hate crime is violence or incitement of violence that is directed at an entire community. It is when someone has attacked a person of Asian decent, for example, with the mentality that s/he is attacking all Asians or their idea of Asian-ness. I agree and disagree with the bill for various reason, but apparently the thought is in the right place considering what I am seeing posted here.
R Jones
@M Paul - one has to protect speech even if it is abhorrent. Who knows who posts these anonymous comments? Could be those that want this law to pass.
Let's be clear - this is an attempt to limit Free Speech.
Prosecute crimes - not 'hate crimes'. What's next? Thought Police?
Whatever happened to exposing and ridiculing haters? We don't need the gov't arresting Bible-thumpers or Neo-nazis - they take care of themselves in the Court of Public Opinion.
M Paul
I should clarify. The assumption is this bill limits free speech, or could someday. I thought the comments were ridiculous.
1) it has nothing to do with free speech
2)if it did it would clearly not be coming out of thin air.
Original bill found here http://uscode.house.gov/uscode-cgi/fastweb.exe?getdoc+uscview+t17t20+273+0+... />
Hate Crime Def. here: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c103:628:./temp/~mdbsH2XHEq:e927518:<... />
And, of course, read this current bill in its entirety.
The bill is very clear. Penalties ONLY apply for those who cause, or attempt, bodily injury. I find nothing that relates to speech at all! If you read the original bill, it clearly states its limited scope. Its used more in special cases b/c the states have their own laws and because federal jurisdiction doesn’t always apply. I really think people are making a fuss about nothing and in the process showing their real prejudices. Its a distraction from the real issues.
M Paul
Sorry, the Hate Crime definition link stopped working. Go to: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c103:h.r.3355.enr:
Click on the link for SEC. 280003
Darth Chaos
To the person who said that if this passes, there will be a revolution or a civil war...the globalists are counting on a violent uprising (whether authentic or government-staged) as an excuse to openly declare martial law...then you would see millions of Bible-believing Christians being put in FEMA-operated concentration camps just for being Bible-believing Christians.
M Padilla
If one reads closely the proposed language does adress physical acts of violence and bodily injury. If you read closely the acts of "persecution" were visited upon the groups above by state hate crime laws. That is where we must focus our attention in this matter. Free speach is being suppressed by the states.
KC
Yes it may refer to only acts of "bodily harm" however it gives too much power to federal judges to interpret exactly what that means. To a lot of them bodily harm includes emotional harm as well as physical. Parts (c1) and (2A) need to be reworded. As it is now any judge anywhere could interpret the last half of the sentence to imprison people for anything including what you say.
DaMama
This bill is abominable. It would put my husband, a pastor, in jail for teaching the Bible.
This is WRONG. We would become just like Canada, limiting free speech, which is guaranteed by our Constitution and Bill of Rights.
Call your representatives and urge them to vote no on this resolution. It makes teaching the Bible a hate crime, and that goes against everything our country stands for and was built upon.
If this passes, the edicts of Nazi Germany are not far behind. Beware, people....this is a subtle but real attack on our personal beliefs and freedoms!
Joe
Bills like this are designed to slowly strip away our rights to be a Christian, all the while saying they are "protecting" certain groups. Why does it seem that the only group in this country NOT protected from hate speech is Christians?
All bible-believers know that this is only one step towards what was written two thousand years ago. There will be a day when Christianity will be outlawed, probably because it will be looked at as a religion full of hate and intolerance, and then as the world moves on and forgets about Christianity, well, bible readers know what happens next.
People look at a bill like this and say "but this doesn't mean anything. Christians can still practice their religion." But it's designed to SLOWLY fool America into accepting things we would have NEVER accepted in the past, one step at a time. Homosexuality is now being forced on us to accept, and Christianity is slowly being stripped away from us.
Very dark storm headed our way.
Ronn
Unlike hate crimes against race or color, homosexuality is a behavior that people choose. Why do other Americans have to accept this behavior that they choose to engage in?
@Joe
"Homosexuality is now being forced upon us to accept, and Christianity is slowly being stripped away from us."
The two are not mutually exclusive.
Joseph
My Christian brothers and sisters, Christ said that we should not be surprised when the world hates us, because they hated him. Why is it that such a miniscule part of our nation (homosexuals) have such a loud voice. Maybe they are not so miniscule after all. Anyhow, what did you expect, congress is back in the hands of the democrats, it won't get any better, there is very little morality with them.
Allen
Amen Joseph. I totally agree, when America started voting for what they thought were their pocketbooks instead of their hearts we started to see this. We have voted people in that want to push their own initiatives instead of doing the business of the majority of the people. I dont know a single person that feels homosexuality is ok and should be shown in public or on TV. I personally find it repulsive and do not want my children to see it. I do not wish to harm anyone but I will speak out against this and do feel that is my right to do so.
Pam Fraling
I am a Christian and believe the Bible when it says that it is a sin for a man to be with a man and vice versa. Having this bill introduced and passed into law would be a grave mistake and a mockery of God's Holy Word. I believe that the trouble we are having now is that we have gotten too far away from the Word of God and God is not pleased. God don't bless no mess. I implore you to do everything in your power to stop this piece of legislation from going forward.
Bill from LA
I am opposed to this bill because its got some basic errors which will lead to further misinterepretation.
Let me say that I am not for gay-bashing from the violence standpoint. However, the gays and lesbians pull no punches when it comes to saying what they think of folks that believe in the Bible. This is not ALL gays and lesbians but a majority of them hate church-goers. You dont hear me crying for more "rights" to be defended.
However, I sure dont like to share a bathroom with a guy that I know likes to look at men's private parts! And I am sure that the ladies feel that same way. Especially when you have to take your child into the public restroom with you. You cant even change a diaper now without wondering if some oddball is looking at your child. Its sick and disgusting all at the same time. These people dont need clinical help. They need to be saved! I was on my way to Hell when Jesus saved me. I admit that my lifestyle was wrong.
What next, unisex bathrooms?
J from Atl.
Write your Congressmen and pray, thats all we can do.
Steve
There is no reason for special laws for homosexuals. When Matthew Shepard got killed, which really wasn't even orientation related we found out later - besides the point - the offenders got life in prison or the death penalty. The system worked..you can't have different laws for different people, and judging the intent of a crime can be nearly impossible in many cases.
Paul
If anyone thinks that homosexualitiy is normal should read Romans Chaper 1 of the Bible and what it says about homosexuality. I was one of those people but you know I felt that all thru my life that it was wrong, which it is. I am happy to say that I am now a born again Christian and do not practice homosexuality. People may feel that I am a self reformed individual but I am not Gods strength and His word helped me to overcome this terrible sin and changed my life if we only believe and trust in Him for our salvation. I pray for our nation that it will turn back to God and raise up godly leaders. I am not being self righteous I am only a sinner saved by His grace and His word has changed my life. If anyone wants to through me in jail for my convictions let them do it. I would be happy to do it if will glorify God. One last comment, does everyone out there truly believe the homosexuality is right?? Let's come back to our senses.
Ryan
If God could read this forum, he would wonder what happened to his flock. Because from reading most of your words, you have transformed from sheep into wolves. I doubt he approves.
And yes that is aimed squarely at you... yes, you... the wanna be fascist extreme right wing "family values" Bible Thumper. And by family values of course you mean your family, and nobody elses.
And to the guy worried about sharing a bathroom with someone of differing sexual orientation. Most likely that person would just take care of business and leave. I bet you'd be the one all sweating and tittering, and you are probably the one that would fantasize about it privately later, because we all know homosexuality has a HUGE hold on the extreme right.
Your indignation is transparent. Face it, you are gay. But that's fine with me, I hope they pass this legislation so that when you do come out, you will have federal protections.
Paul
His flock is still here. We believe that God's word is true to honored and revered and as Christians we are to submit to His will and not mans. I would be happy to talk about a homosexual who seriously wants to repent of his sin and lead him to Christ. There is not a greater joy on earth than leading someone to Christ. God's word is powerful and mighty and it can change anyone and deliver them from their sin. For the person who feels that the person is still in closet you are badly mistaken. I was out of the closet for over 40 plus years and since I have been saved I would never go back to that lifestyle. It doesn't mean that I still don't struggle with it but my faith and working of Holy Spirit within me He gives me victory over the son. I pray for my former homosexual friends. HOMOSEXUALS DO NOT DESERVE ANY SPECIAL RIGHTS AND I BELIEVE GOD WILL DEFEAT THIS BILL.
Jonathan
I've read the proposed bill. People are overreacting a little here. As previously pointed out, this bill has nothing to do with speech. Although an oddball judge may have liberally construed the phrase "bodily harm", this law would unquestionably be stuck down as applied if it were used to prosecute a preacher for simply preaching against homosexuality.
Congress can NOT, through acts of its own, strip away Constitutionally guaranteed rights. (It can, however, bank on a Supreme Court that is willing to reinterpret what rights the Constitution contains, but that's a whole different can of rotten worms.)
However, under current S. Ct. rulings, I do not believe that any reasonable court can construe "bodily harm" - at least as it is used in this bill - to cover simply preaching that homosexual acts are sinful.
And yes - I am a lawyer.
Marshall Lentini
No matter what it says exactly, it must of course be viewed as a "gateway" bill. The mere fact of a "hate crimes prevention act" on the books will empower every leftist crusader and jew in the country already eager to cut out our tongues to enact whatever legislation they please and push for more extensive "interpretation" of "hate crime".
Vanguard News Network was taken offline not by its ISP, but by the PHONE company which carried it, all because A CANADIAN NATIONAL made a complaint about something they alleged was said on VNN Radio. Presto! Offline. Freedom of speech?
The First Amendment is dead. We have become a nation of vassals. It is time for every self-respecting white man, Christian or not, to get ready to defend himself against his government and those who follow it. And not only defend...
Joe
Jonathan- While this bill in its current form may not limit free speech, you said yourself that it could be "construed" differently. We Christians know that this bill is one of many stepping stones towards the outlawing of Christianity. Look at our pop culture today. Christians are constantly berated and made fun of on television and movies. It will only get worse.
Ryan- what you don't realize is that you are confirming what we Christians already know...that we will become hated in the end. You are an example. Thank you for proving what we've heard all along. P.S.- You won't get Christians to accept homosexuals by calling us homosexual. But nice intimidation tactic.
John Bryans Fontaine
As a Liberal, I strongly oppose many of Ted Pike's and many of the other's views. However, I agree with what Pike has to say about H.R. 254. This bill is a major
threat to Free Speech. Will PFAW help stop it??
"In order to evade the Constitution's clear limitations on federal intervention in law enforcement, HR 254 alleges that hate crimes are actually...slavery! "Violence motivated by bias is a relic of slavery that can constitute badges and incidents of slavery." (Sec. 2, 8) "
http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/hate_crimes_legislation_back.html... />
http://www.rense.com/general75/whoswarn.htm
I am really disgusted that more Liberals aren't defending Free Speech and opposing HR 254. Hopefully, that will change.
jpe
you guys don't seem too bright. The bill doesn't criminalize speech, ya morons, it bans criminal acts motivated by race, gender, religion, or sexual orientation.
The Philly 11 case shows that these laws are not a threat: the jerkoffs that were protesting were wrongly arrested, and the charges correctly dismissed. The system worked.
jpe
I amend my earlier comment: you guys are actually dumber than a bag of bricks, and insane to boot. I look forward to sharing this site with friends. What a find! Try to ramp up the craziness; it's funnier when you're really, really, rabid.
@jpe
So what would be considered a criminal act to YOU? What about to someone else? What about to a particular judge with a statement to make? Would publicly slandering homosexuality because of your religious beliefs be considered a criminal act? People always claim mental distress and other ridiculous things when it comes to stuff like that. To some it is a criminal act. And this type of bill can lead to things that even YOU may not want.
P.S.-People tend to make fun of things they don't understand. It's a defense mechanism. So yes... we DO feel sorry for you.
HistoryWriter
jpe; you make the mistake of assuming that most of the commentators here can read and understand anything more complicated than the funny pages.
HistoryWriter
Just wondering: do you folks think ALL hate crime legislation is bad, or just hate crime laws that add "sexual orientation" to the list of protected classes?
FEA
I hate all of you. Oops I need to be arrested now.
Belinda Alexia
I listened to your radio program lastnight 02.27.2007.... I was unaware of this bill that was going through and the person whom you mentioned that is trying to get it through.... I am against Hate and personally am working on forgiveness thus I pray that the Universal Law of Human Rights would be upheld by any person whom has respect for LIFE!!!! Thank you for being bold, May you have wisdom to speak Truth....
The foundation of Humanity is Love May LOve reign
@HistoryWriter
"Hate crime" laws add penalties to a criminal sentence if the criminal is also convicted of having a "hateful" intent toward the victim based on the victim's real or perceived group identity. Crime victims who don't fit into certain categories see their assailants face lesser penalties. Ultimately, "hate crime" laws punish only beliefs or thoughts.
Sec. 2(9) of HR 254 states "although many local jurisdictions have attempted to respond to the challenges posed by such violence, the problem is sufficiently serious, widespread, and interstate in scope to warrant FEDERAL INTERVENTION to assist such jurisdictions." Since when is MORE gov't intervention a GOOD thing?
@HistoryWriter
HR 254 sec2 (9):"the problem is SUFFICIENTLY SERIOUS, WIDESPREAD, and INTERSTATE IN SCOPE to warrant Federal intervention to assist such jurisdictions"
It looks like there were 8,003,625 crimes in America in 2005 (most recent data) from the FBI (My numbers may be a little off because I couldn't find a final number of TOTAL crimes, but instead a final number of EACH type of crime. Ex: murder: 12,000 offenses, etc. So I had to add all of them up.). Of those crimes there were 8,380 hate crime offenses. That's a .001 percent crime rate. Doesn't sound as "widespread and interstate in scope" as to warrant even MORE government powers. A little more complicated than the funny pages.
@HistoryWriter
"do you folks think ALL hate crime legislation is bad, or just hate crime laws that add "sexual orientation" to the list of protected classes?"
"Hate crime" laws are unnecessary. Criminal acts are already illegal. What's more, "hate crime" laws violate the constitutional right to equal protection.
They violate the concept of equal protection under the law by granting more government protection to certain classes of people and are an overreach of federal power – allowing federal government intervention into local and state affairs. You might see opponents of this bill as bigots and homophobes, and some might be. But the majority of us are concerned about things deeper than that.
So instead of calling people on this page "unable to understand anything more complicated than the funny pages", why don't you do some research and contribute a WORTHY argument here.
HistoryWriter
The statute seems plain enough on its face, and no different from other statutes that are supposed to prevent certain categorties of crime. It punishes crimes against the person uniformly when they are motivated by the victim's race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. It DOES NOT specify what the race, religion or sexual orientation must be, consequently it deprives nobody of equal protection of the laws. It protects atheists as well as believers, and straights as well as gays. It might help if you tried understanding the statute before making ill-informed arguments about the 14th Amendment. Do you seriously claim that motive plays no role in the definition of crime; that there is no difference between an arsonist who burns down a church because he hates Baptists and one who burns down his house to collect the insurance? Do you believe that motive should NEVER be a factor in determining the severity of an offense? Have you ever studied law?
Dman
What a bunch of quacks. The only thing this Bill will do is put a plug in your lets-hate and kill-fags pie hole. When your speech leads to killings, you need to be put to death, as Leviticus would put it. You are simply losing your right to emotionally murder, and you think you are losing something else. You are a very twisted group, but then, wasn't it you that wanted to also murder in the past for such profound discoverers such the like that found the earth was round? You are a very disturbing bunch of lemmings.
DMAN
PS For you right wingers and all your interest in gay sexuality, remember, what you focus on you become ..... bettaaaah waaaatch ouuuuut .....
HistoryWriter
"Ultimately, "hate crime" laws punish only beliefs or thoughts."
I disagree. Hate crime laws puinish actual crimes based on their motivation. Motive has always been a factor in determining criminality. HR 254 is not addressing hateful speech, or speech that incites to action, but crimes motivated by any kind of racial, religious or gender aniumus when they result in bodily harm. ACTIONS are being proscribed here, not thoughts.
HistoryWriter
"Since when is MORE gov't intervention a GOOD thing?"
I don't know. Should we ask all those folks who think the Feds ought to be defining marriage for the States?
@historywriter
" Do you seriously claim that motive plays no role in the definition of crime; that there is no difference between an arsonist who burns down a church because he hates Baptists and one who burns down his house to collect the insurance?"
So which is worse: a man who kills another man because of money, or a man who kills another man because of him being homosexual? They are both murder. And yes motive is used in criminal procedings, but do you think the man who killed the homosexual should face stiffer penalties because of his hate? Crime is crime. That's what these people are saying. Why should certain groups (gays, straights, Christians or atheists) have more right to life and liberty than people who don't fit into a category of the government's choosing? Why should you be punished worse for attacking someone OF A GROUP because you hate them as opposed to just attacking someone because of other reasons?
@HistoryWriter
"Should we ask all those folks who think the Feds ought to be defining marriage for the States?"
So by your thinking, if the government stated tomorrow that it's ok for adults to marry 12 year olds, would that be acceptable to you? I would hope not. People expect their elected officials to pass and carry out laws that are indicative of the values and desires of the MAJORITY of the people in the nation. That's how the whole democracy thing works. And I'm sorry to tell you, the majority still views homosexuality as abnormal and NOT indicative of the values of most Americans. You can't expect the gov't to reshape an entire value system, but what you can expect is that they protect what we currently have.
@HistoryWriter
If a politician runs on a platform that clearly states that, if elected, he will redefine marriage, and then STILL wins, then you can expect the definition to soon change. But this hasn't happened (yet). Politicians know that most people still reject gay marriage, which is why right-wingers are asking the government to DO WHAT THE PEOPLE WANT. Isn't that what they should be doing... the will of the majority?
B
Proof of motive is not required in a criminal prosecution. However, a hate crime is one crime that requires proof of a certain motive. Generally, a hate crime is motivated by the defendant's belief regarding a PROTECTED status of the victim, such as the victim's religion, race, etc.
So... why again do we need hate crime legislation? It clearly gives special rights to certain groups (yes, on both sides of the fence). Which sounds to me like that's granting more government protection to certain classes of people. If a guy gets killed because he has a beard, is that a hate crime? No, I wouldn't think so. People with beards aren't a protected class. You could go on and on. What about gang members killing someone for wearing red? Hate crime? Robbing someone because they're rich, and you hate rich people? Where is the limit? And if there is a limit, that's where the unequality is present.
dkb
Hey dman- "kill-fags"? That's not a very PC term is it?
"When your speech leads to killings, you need to be put to death". So you're against free speech? You say they should be put to death, but then you turn around and say "wasn't it you that wanted to also murder in the past for such profound discoverers such the like that found the earth was round?" Anybody else see the hypocrisy in this?
HistoryWriter
"Politicians know that most people still reject gay marriage, which is why right-wingers are asking the government to DO WHAT THE PEOPLE WANT."
"What the people want?" Which people, where? Do you favor the Feds legislating in areas that are traditionally the province of States (e.g., defining domestic partnerships)? Understand, you can't have it both ways. I don't see how you can logically, consistently argue that the Feds SHOULD legislate a national marriage definition and then, on the other hand, argue that they SHOULDN'T legislate a national definition of hate crime.
HistoryWriter
"Proof of motive is not required in a criminal prosecution."
On the contrary "mens rea" (i.e., evil intent) is at the very foundation of criminal law. The sober person who runs you over accidentally has not committed a crime. The sober person who runs you over with the intention of injuring you, HAS committed a crime. With all due respect to the commentators here, I think many of your comments reflect a total misunderstanding of how the American legal system works.
HistoryWriter
"So which is worse: a man who kills another man because of money, or a man who kills another man because of him being homosexual?"
Point taken. Now let me ask you which is worse: burning down my own house to collect the insurace, or burning down your church because I hate members of your denomination? Incidentally, I never heard anyone complain about hate crime legislation until sexual orientation was added to the list. Do you think it's inappropriate to grant "special privileges" on the basis of religion?
Alison
I think homosexual people should have the rights of every other citizen!
Darth Chaos
Alison, I agree that homosexuals should have the same CONSTITUTIONAL rights as heterosexuals, but this blatant butchering of the First Amendment is definitely not the way to do it because this hate law could one day be used to persecute and prosecute homosexuals. I don't want equal treatment for all (which is a nice way of saying equal enslavement). I want equal FREEDOM for all.
The politicians, the ones who make you think you have a choice, are nothing more than puppets of the global puppet masters. The global puppet masters do not give a damn about gay rights. They use gay rights as an excuse to impose global tyranny on the global population.
Mike
I'm constantly amazed by the Christians who feel persecuted. Your worst nemesis, the ACLU, would fight to the death for your right to have your church and yes, to even put a manger on the front lawn at Christmas time.
When people resist your attempts at evangelizing and say no to a manger on a courthouse lawn you all start raving about persecution.
Grow up. Not everyone wants to be like you. If someone wants to be "saved" let them come to you.
I don't see HR254 as an attempt to persecute Christians, not by a long shot BUT, I don't particularly think it's a good idea either.
Carissa Prater
I completely disagree with HR 254. They are saying in the bill that it would be agaisnt the law to speak out against homosexuality. Shouldn't I have free speech to think it is wrong or right? I am not speaking against people or "hating" people. I am simply disagreeing with something that they do. This law would take away my right to publically disagree with homosexuality. It would now be a "hate crime". I don't hate the person, just the sin they are commiting.
TIFFANY
This is insane. I can't believe our 1st amendment right is being taken away due to the perversion of the human mind. Homosexuals are not right and it's a very unnatural act that they perform and GOD says it's an abomination. I will never stay quiet about this nasty behavior if I am asked my opinion. I don't believe homo's are bad people,but they are definitly mislead. My children will be taught the GODLY way, not the devil's way. We need to wake up and repent for all of the messes we have caused or else GOD'S wrath is going to pour out on us. We need to teach our children right. We are not going to survive if we don't change. Can you imagine a world ran by homo's? It might as well be called hell.
Jackson
Carissa Prater wrote: "I completely disagree with HR 254. They are saying in the bill that it would be agaisnt the law to speak out against homosexuality."
Where does the proposed law say that? It only would apply to you if you decided to "speak out" by walking up to someone and accusing them of being a sodomite, and then shooting them with a gun. How in the world is that interpreted as "hate speech"? It is a sentencing enhancement for extremely violent crime, and has nothing to do with free speech.
connie wiesel
This bill is a crime..... Where's freedom of speech?
Steven Alexander
I think it's a great idea to protect homosexuals from mistreatment and hate crimes; but HR 254 is not the way to do it.
Ramses413
Conservatives: your ideologies are FLAWED! How dare you pass judgment; who gives you that right? Freedom of speech allows you all to say whatever you wish; when those words leed to motive for murder or killings of any group, homsexuals, African-American, Jewish, Christian, etc. That is when the individual or group who violently targets said groups should be punished. Question: Is discrimination moral? I'm just wondering!
Timothy R. Stephenson, USN, Ret.
Hate Crimes So much gets lost in the translation.I can't say nigger but a black man on TV can say it.Archie Bunker never said it once,yet George Jefferson would say Honkie, Whitey etc!I know this venue is not about Racism but it does not lag far behind. Homosexuals do not like to be called queers,fags etc. Fine! We all deserve our freedoms.I agree with what Tiffany "scroll up a few" had to say. The Bible is the BIBLE! You wont find any other species on the planet "that I know of" that practices this deviant behavior. Be prepared to pay tomorrow for what you do today.Queers may have rights one day "might does not make right" I am no more a racist than Bill Cosby,Al Sharpton, Gregory Hines or Louis Farrakhan I'm not homophobic. I'm simply an American speaking my thoughts aloud"Before that too is taken away" If you wish to write new law,then abolish affirmative action and let us all stand / fall together. God Bless All People.
Elizabeth
This is an amazing step in the right direction. All Americans should be protected from vicious hate crimes. How the American Family Association could possibly be against legislation which supports peace is utterly beyond me.
bill
test
Edmund
test
Frederick
Regardless of religions, morals or other assorted human utopias, we have not evolved organs that favors even remotely, reproduction via the digestive tract.
These behaviors, however misguided, have no survival values or benefits whatsoever.
The jury is still out as far as the bankrupting psychobiological effects this has on society at large.
In a natural setting, most would perish at a swift rate.
Let us not, either abhor or condone this "defect", but instead provide therapy to those who suffer from it.
Tbone
Heck with therapy! I say let em screw thier little brains out, drop dead from whatever transmitted diesease they get and let whomever deal with them in the here after. They are reprobate
1. A morally unprincipled person.
2. One who is predestined to damnation.
1. Morally unprincipled; shameless.
2. Rejected by God and without hope of salvation.
tr.v. rep·ro·bat·ed, rep·ro·bat·ing, rep·ro·bates
1. To disapprove of; condemn.
2. To abandon to eternal damnation. Used of God.
Shame on some of you
I agree with M Paul. You wouldn't realize how necessary this bill was until you read these comments. 50 years from now, when homosexuality doesn't create fear and panic, the average person will read most of the above comments like they would have slave owners or raciest... How could they have felt so passionately about something that was so clearly inhuman. It's amazing a religious person isn't more worried about doing good to our society rather than spreading hate because someone is something you can't relate to.
carroll
A stupid unnecessary bill that will waste the time of our legislators. Fire, firearms, and explosive devices??? Is that it? This box is not large enough for me to list the ways I can inflict injury with or without the necessity to associate it with a hate specific to some label like race, creed, sexual preference, etc. Why do we need it? Why should it be federal? We already have enough laws to arrest criminals and means to move them from one state to another. Why authorize another means to dump money into a black hole for misuse? This is a poorly thoughtout measure that will surely be a broadly misused tool by every slick lawyer and misguided group in America. NO!
Adrian
The new testament is full of Scriptures that testify against GAY/HOMOSEXUALS/LESBIANS whatever will be their next definition. Here some quick Scriptures off the top of my head:
Romans 1:26-32
Jude 1:7
There are many more that speak about the filth of Sodom and Gomorrah that clearly state GAYNESS.
Adrian
ALL PEOPLES OF THE WORLD WILL BE JUDGED ACCORDING TO GOD'S HOLY WORD.
NO MATTER HOW NICE THEY TRY TO EXCUSE THEMSELVES, THIS WILL HAPPEN ONCE WE ARE OUT OF OUR PHYSICAL BODIES. THE ONLY WAY TO BE DELIVERED IS TO REPENT AND ACCEPT JESUS' WORDS.
jpkay
no crime is a HATE CRIME ALL CRIME IS FROM HATE AND ADDING A HATE CRIME DESIGNATION IS DOUBLE JEPORDY AND MORALLY WRONG WHY DO WE HAVE TO GIVE SPECIAQL PROTECTION TO ANY CLASS OF CITIZEN AND NOT TO ALL. THIS IS A POLITICAL SNOW JOB AND THE SPONSORS WHO EVERT THEY SAY THEY ARE TRYING TO HELP ARE ONLY PLAYIBG TO MAXIMISE THERE POWER AND FEED A SMALL BUT VOCAL SUBGROUP WHOM THEY THINK THEY CAN RIDE TO GREATER POWER POWER CORRUPTS AND ...YOU KNOW THE REST PLEASE LAWS NEED TO BE FAIR AND ENFORCED EVENLY NOT FITH PREFERANCE FOR SOME ND A DISREGUARD FOR OTHERS THAT IS WHAT HATE CRIME LAWS DO ALLWAYS.9C2OH WHAT CAN WE DO FIND LOVE IN ALL PEOPLE AND THE ONE WHO CAN NOT STOP VIOLENCE OUR LAWS ALREADY ARE PLENTY STIFF TO DEAL WITH ALL WEVIL NO NEW LAWS ESPECIALLY FOR POLICITAL SPIN IS GOING TO DO ANY GOOD ANY TIME JK
jpk
no hate crime bills are a spin for power and a scam for power not a help for any one the hate crime is anti american it side steps the 4th amendment and others it is weak pol's way to show care insead of doing work to help people who are in need of help install hate crimes to silence the majority andenter stge with the power of the gov. to enforce the obserd stop this insanity and use the laws thatallready to stop evil and help the oppressed ml king did not like hate crimes ideas and the ability of cotizen who can leagally defend him/her self is the best hate crime deterance ... not a way to double jepordy in the law and to give undue legal power to a small nimority out of perportion to the problem.
Matt
Ok 'dooms-dayers', I don't understand the horror of adding sexual orientation to hate crime lists, considered we are a targeted group who continually are assaulted purposefully. It is not different than 60 years ago when the Federal government stepped into to guarantee protection and equal rights to African Americans.
lcb
Matt- You are not seriously comparing being gay to being African American are you? I think most African Americans other than I would probably be offended by this.
Plus, I think what most Christians here are trying to say is that, by their beliefs, it is morally wrong to partake in a lifestyle such as homosexuality, not morally wrong to be black. The Bible never states that blacks can't enter the kingdom of Heaven. Only those that commit immoral acts such as homosexuality. Also, let's not get this confused. Most Christians don't hate the sinner, only the sin. But through the media and television, Christians are now viewed as hatemongers and violent gay-bashers. Very sad.
lcb
"Only those that commit immoral acts such as homosexuality" - To clarify, I obviously ment only those PEOPLE that commit these acts, not just blacks.
lcb
I think this is another step towards "moral relativism"- or quite simply, if it feels good, do it. Throughout time there have been moral disciplines that have been part of a social fiber. That fiber has kept many civilizations from slipping into chaos. For example, it is illegal to kill in most countries. We've all wanted to kill at some point in our lives, or at least seriously injure, but the moral discipline that our laws were based on kept us from doing this.
The point I'm trying to make is that most Christians view the ACT of homosexuality a sin, not being homosexual. We have urges to commit many sins daily, but we abstain.
lcb
It's not far-fetched to imagine a future in which people will want special rights because they sleep with animals, or possibly children. Nothing productive comes from a homosexual relationship other than SELF gratification and personal indulgence. There is no way to progress the human race through homosexuality. Ironically, if it weren't for hetero's, the gay lifestyle would eventually die out.
lcb
And one more thing- before you say some sappy stuff about how love, partnership and happiness come from a homosexual relationship, and that those are productive things, you don't need a priest or judge to marry you to achieve these things. Part of the reason most hetero's get married is to raise a family. Having a mother AND father in the house exposes the children to a view of the world from BOTH sexes, something that is not achieved in gay households. And then of course, there is the inablility to HAVE children, but I guess science could always take care of that through reproductive manipulation, except in the case of male gay relationships, in which adoption or a third party are the only ways of reproducing.
Judy
My experience is this: Everybody can speak out for any religion other than Christian, and that is okay. They can even sit in my work place and propoate (promote) homosexuality and promiscuity, which has happened. But you should see them stare daggers when the water fountain discussion turns to expressing a favorable view of the Bible and any argument that the moral code was given to us by our Creator. I am wondering how close we are to daggered-looks turning into sharp penalties and even federal law.
Dan Druk
I think some people are going way too far to think this bill has anything at all to do with infringing free speech. Get over your paranoia. But yeah, since when were any of the things listed in this bill legal? Waste of time/money in my opinion.
Phred
If you feeble morons don't like homosexuality then don't engage in it. But keep your beliefs to yourselves. Nobody needs you telling other people how to live their lives. Especially because you're under some delusion that a 4,000 year-old book tells you so. It also tells you to stone delinquents to death and that the sun revolves around the earth. So please... just shut up and keep your religious claptrap private. Then nobody's gonna have to slap you around for spreading hatred.
Cynthia
The thing that I find interesting is that the people who are against the law, obviously haven't read it. It is expanding the law to protect people against PHYSICAL violence: in it there are no such terms saying that Freedom of Speech will, or can, be taken away.
And it is funny that these Christian conservatives don't feel the same laws that protect them from violence should be offered to other people, simply because they don't believe in the same way. God loves everyone...says so in the bible; and God made each and every person unique and the way they are supposed to be...so really think about it when you are out preaching "love" and "God's word"
Mireya
I'm not sure where to begin. I've read through these comments and have been trying to tame the fire of emotions within, since I do not want to come out lashing irrationally as so many of these commenters have... Look, everyone has a right to believe what they need to. You have been raised to hate a group? Fine. Sad for you, since hatred is a painful thing. You have every right to spread your believes and your feelings through SPEECH alone. To your kids, you friends, your church members. IT ENDS THERE, or at least it SHOULD.
Mireya
Trying to inhibit rights to homosexuals because you interpret the man-written words in your Bible to mean that homosexuals are sinners, well... such words have been miscontrude before in other groups of people. I was onced told as a child in my Babtist church that Jews were sinners and wrong... some of you still try to claim such things, while others of your very same faith admit this is untrue. I'm sorry, I'm trying to refrain from attacking the way you have attacked a group of so many people I care about, but you truly are a confused and frightened religion. Back off my friends and family who are just trying to live a life like the rest of Americans. I have more to say to a specific few of you... I'll do so when I have time.
Mireya
To "lcb" - you make several points that, if I had a chip on my shoulder, I'd hug like a child hugs a snuggly/safe/warm teddy bear. You take such offense to a comparison of you deserving equal rights as much as a homosexual? I'm happy for you that you have found some peace and feeling of "equality" and "communion" among your Christian brothers and sisters. I do not poke any fun at you for this in any way; I do not oppose any faith for the feeling of hope and family and security it may provide. However, do you not realize you are lashing out at fellow human beings who are simply feared and misunderstood because they are different from you, much the same as the wrongfully judged from your past? Are you more offended and afraid to allow such a comparison because you fear to lose your status, somehow, in your currently secured communion or because you fear that if such a statement is true, you might be holding hatred wrongfully?
Mireya
Hey, Phred, I like your point about the interpretation in the past of what "God's Word" was... If anyone really does their research into religions, without a biased blockade, there are many "holes" in the system. This is why, I believe, I've met Christians of different churches who will preach different things. I once volunteered at a Christian church that provided food, shelder, games, and discussion for people with HIV/AIDS (straight and gay orientations, although the majority was gay at the time since it was nearly 8 years ago in MISSOURI). Gays were not considered to be "sinners" in that church; they believed the bible was "misinterpreted" by other christians who believed that gays were not still loved by God.
Mireya
To Cynthia - I don't know if you'll come back to this page and find my comment to you or not, but I'd like to thank you for making your point. My issue with religion is not the spirituality or different beliefs that come with each one; my issue is when people use their religion as an excuse to kill, bring bodily harm, or even "just" try to wipe out or put a group in exile. If it somehow brings people peace to believe that something that scares them is hated by God, who created them in the first place (if God is who you believe in), then fine. I think that's sad and ignorant, but nobody should be told they CANNOT believe something. However, they should be refused the "right" to go spitting in people's faces and calling it "free speech", or throwing things at people or refusing people housing or employment as a method of "free speech". Speech and action are 2 different things.
Mireya
I also like how "Shame on some of you" put it. Times are changing. The acceptance of homosexuality is far more wide-spread now than it was 10 years ago. I know this frightens many people...But it frightened many people in the past when Blacks were gaining equal rights. The majority of you get over it, bluntly put. Some are still out there with racism burning hot in their hearts and thoughts. Unfortunately, this will always be for every group by another group. But acceptance wins overall eventually...One way or another.
Mireya
Homosexuals are not who they are by "choice", btw. Many have wished their whole lives they could just be like "you", so their lives would be easier (which is SAD, they shouldn't have to feel this way!). HELLO, they do not LOVE being hated and refused the right to marry, or raise children (in many cases). They have no choice in loving the same sex anymore than "you" choose if you love a blonde, a brunnett, a black/white/asian, etc. Fat or thin, tall or short. They hurt noone. Except maybe your personal fears. Maybe it makes you sick to see 2 old couples making out. So look away. Maybe it makes you cringe to see an overweight person in clothes that don't fit... So look away. They hurt noone.
Mireya
Homosexuals hurt noone. We are who we are, or aren't. You don't have to understand it or agree with it. You don't have to "join in". But eventually, you're going to have to accept it enough so that you are not condoning the restriction of their rights as HUMAN BEINGS. As FREE AMERICANS.
Mireya
Hey Tbone...you think gays are the only ones with transmitted diseases? You think they "started" it? You think they magically transmitted it to the "straight" people like some voo-doo conspiracy? Wow, they are some people people then. I'm losing my ability to remain collected here, since your statment is so full of blind hatred. There's a lot more behind the story, Tbone. I almost hate to disapoint you. Go ahead and stay in your little bubble, though, because I'm afraid you wouldn't be able to handle the real world.
Mireya
Frederick, I'm confused. Are you under the impression that we are in danger of going extinct? Is the human race running low on population?
Uhm, I hope I misunderstood your comment. I don't think a homosexual's inability to produce children on their own is going to threaten the human race. We are a highly overpopulated species. If you want to get theoretical, I'll throw out a wild thought: what if God created men and women as homosexuals in effort to help control the population just a bit? Try to hinder us from popping out QUITE as many kids... You think that's a totally insane statement? Maybe, maybe not. Look in the mirror, pal. Look closely.
Mireya
Lastly for now... I'd just like ot say "WELL PUT" to Ramses413. I still say all these people have their right to think, feel, and say what they have said. But that's where it ends. I think they'd all be singing a different tune if someone cracked a code in the Bible that said somehow they were sinners...maybe by the WAY they have sex behind closed doors or by the foods they eat or because of a certain birthmark or color freckle they are born with. They have never been the object of discrimination...they have never had their rights threatened. If they have, in a REAL manner, and they still do this... I can only attribute the behavior to fear and weakness, same as always.
Katie C
Referring to Ronn's comment:
"Ronn
Unlike hate crimes against race or color, homosexuality is a behavior that people choose. Why do other Americans have to accept this behavior that they choose to engage in?"
Katie C
... Clearly you have miscompreheded the actual reasons for this updated bill to be passed. The issue at hand is NOT to force liking OR agreement on whether or not you, or any other homophobe, thinks is right, wrong, sinful, whatever to engage in homosexuality. It's merely to protect these individuals from harm, as ANY individual- gay, straight, Jewish, Christian, young, old, black, white, gray, purple, etc... SHOULD BE. Fighting for anything otherwise is your rightful choice, but in doing so, you're not just "disagreeing" with the way one leads their life. You're fighting for the right to bash someone for it. Have you ever been bashed for the way you live yours?
Katie C
... Now, as for whether or not you believe that someone is BORN a homosexual is your own rightful opinion. Believe what you wish , PLEASE. However, the big issue at hand isn't based on the fact that you or I do or don't think they can "help" it. It's the fact that you, and a majority of commenters on this site, and another majority of people in this country can't seem to handle this difference of interest. Because, really, that's all it is. Opinions, creeds, rights, wrongs... all things pushed aside. There is no issue. Homosexuality is merely a petty excuse to thrive on such individuals as yourself's fears and disagreements.
Katie C
My advice, take it or leave it, is to take some responsibility for yourself. Accepting YOUR problem is the first step, Ronn (and anybody else with these same issues).
Mireya
Well-stated, Katie C!!
It's a shame there aren't more people with your rational, open mind.
Walletfullofpennies
This bill does not limit you free speech. only on harrasing people by your beleifs.
Heatherross
Unacceptable bill, you are going to incite a war within the USA that is going to make the Amercian Revolution look like a picnic in the park! Our representatives are tearing this country apart! We the people need to step in AGAIN!!!! and take over. The ones representing us have failed one to many times and I HAVE HAD IT!!!!! I am willing to fight for the reason this country was founded, I am tired of listening to them whine, and blame, these people are not worthy to represent us anymore. Liars, corruption, out with them all, I don't even want to listen to them on TV, etc. This bill is just one more wrong move by our representives. NO MORE MS> NICE GUY! We could put 10 y.o.'s in their place in Washington and they would get along!!!!! OUT WITH OUR REPRESENTATIVES!!
Kaylee Bovet
To be against this bill is unthinkable. To say it is ok to hate someone for there race,religion,or sexual preferances is being un American. No one should be disliked for there beliefs or background.
Mireya
...Ahhh, so nice to see a couple more people who are open-minded, realistic, and HUMANE. Thanks to you who voice your disagreement with the sad/angry individuals who waste so much energy hating what they don't understand. :) It doesn't feel good to hate...too bad some people are so full of it.
DAVIS
I HEARD MOM,DAD WILL BE TAKEN OUT
OF TEXT BOOKS BECAUSE IT OFFENDS
GAYS . GAYS OFFEND ME AND A LOT OF PEOPLE,NOTHING IS DONE TO STOP THEM FROM OFFENDING US THIER GOAL IS TO DESTROY CHRISTIANITY THAT'S HATE.
Sharper
To be in favor of this bill is to say that certain groups of people deserve more protection than others.
It's a violation of the principle of equal treatment under the law.
The same crime should be punishable the same way, with no regard for the race, religion, or sexual preference of the victim.
What if they passed a law that stated that if you attacked a white male because he's a white male, you must serve extra prison time?
Sharper
(Cont.)
How about if they gave the death penalty only to people who attacked asian women?
Can you see the ridiculous discrimination that is the point of this law?
This law also leads to prosecutors attempting to prove what a criminal was thinking when they committed the crime, just to get some more years added to the sentence.
It doesn't matter what they were thinking, it matters what actions they took.
State laws to punish violent crime are just fine. There is no need for the Feds to create new crimes in order to pander to special interest groups.
Steve
@ Sharper: Technically, being a caucasian male is a race or ethnicity, and if you caused said white male physical harm, this law DOES say just that.
As for the rest of you, I am sick at heart to call myself a Christian after seeing some of the comments on this site.
Yes, the Bible does say homosexuality is a sin. It also says gossip is a sin. It says that a slave rebelling against its master is a sin. It says that divorce for any reason other than marital infidelity is a sin. The point is simply that WE ARE ALL SINNERS, and will never be able to live without sin - hence Christ.
Claiming you are heaven-bound because your personal sins are perhaps more socially acceptable than a lesbian's is the height of hypocrisy. You are heaven-bound because of your faith in Christ, not because of your supposed lack of sin - just as a gay man who believes in Christ is.
Let he who hath no sin cast the first stone.
Mireya
To Steve... Not all Christians pick and choose from the Bible what they wish to read and believe. I'm glad there are still Christians like you who grasp more of the whole concept of the "guidance" of the Bible... The religion is a beautiful thing, until people use it to discriminate and bend the words to fit their personal feelings of confort and "right" and "wrong".
Mireya
Everyone who has posted a comment has every right to believe whatever they need to believe in order to sleep at night, so to speak... I think many of us get most frustrated when others contradict their own words and twist their own ideas and bend whatever facts are at hand, just to put themselves in a "righter" position to claim who should have human rights and who should not. This bill isn't isolating gays to have special treatment. It's clarifying that they are included rather than EXCLUDED from the same right to be free of harm as everyone else.
Mireya
Maybe the bill won't do much. Maybe it will. But to try to resist it ONLY because it is now INCLUDING gays in the list that was presented in a previously passed bill... Common people. This is about your dislike for GAYS and possibly your fear that it won't be easy to get off the hook if someone harrasses them, beats them or kills them for their sexuality. You don't have to like them. But they are human and deserve the same protection as any of you. Try to fight for your rights to practice your beliefs without inhibiting other's rights to live and love openly whom their hearts desire.
Reverend Blowhard
I don't believe the prosecution of a crime should be more severe because others assume they knew what you were thinking.
I’m not much interested in the spiritual entertainers (a.k.a. preachers) ability to leverage what feels odd to garner support. Religion is a confidence scam, if people want to feed deadbeats like preachers, that’s fine. You have to be pretty stupid to let someone con you into thinking they have special connections with gods anyway. Somehow those all powerful supernatural creatures (a.k.a. gods) always need extra cash!
To police on the basis of your thoughts is thought police. Everyone should be entitled to think and say what they like.
Mercator
This is not a Christian Nation. It allows for tolerance of multiple religions. When your Religion actively campaigns to limit the freedoms of those who don't believe as you do then your are forcing your beliefs on others. That is wrong. I have no problem with you if you belief in the Bible, or the Koran, etc. If it guides you, gives you hope, who has the right to tell you that you are wrong. Keep it to yourself and realize that your almost as Atheist as I am, you just believe in one more God than me. There is a difference between being tolerant of other peoples religions, and being indifferent.
Mercator
One more thing. I do not agree with this legislation as culture determines what is acceptable little by little. I don't think there should be MORE penalties to someone engaged in hate crimes. They are still crimes. Does it make regular assaults any more acceptable? Punish for the crime, understand the reason and educate.
Oh and some people are born Homosexual. Ever seen Who's the Boss? C'mon.. that kid was obviously gay at 6 years old. No one can stop you from thinking what you want, but be prepared when you see how unacceptable it is to resort to violence to enforce your religion.
Norrin
There is no point to this legislation, any crime directed at an individual is either done by the perpetrator to gain something or is done out of hate. Labeling something a "hate crime" just points out again our differences rather than underscoring that we are all human beings living in the same country.
Jenn
Respectfully, I disagree with this bill. Hating innocent people and committing a crime against them for any reason is reprehensible - but a crime is a crime is a crime. Decent people would agree that murdering someone because they are gay and murdering someone for money are both wrong - but how could you judge one as worse than the other?! Both deserve the stiffest penalties.
Criminalizing certain crimes as worse than others due to personal belief leads down a slippery slope. We should not criminalize thought - it is just too Orwellian and is creepy.
Mireya
Good points (last few), but I must be missing something. I don't see that this bill is trying to enforce MORE punishment to a crime than any other crime... Seems to me it's trying to equlize it, since sometimes crimes are overlooked a bit when it's to a black, a gay, a lower-class person... I could be wrong, but my interpretation after READING the bill in full was that it was merely including certain groups to have equal right to justice as everyone else...?
RickyP
While you may consider homosexuality to be a sin, that has absolutely no consequence in law. Not all Christian morals appear in law, yet they exist anyway. The purpose of government is not to legislate morality, but to enforce social contracts. To deny social contracts to anyone because of their sexual orientation is to deny them a place in society. You have no such right to do so. You may as well exclude minorities also.
This bill will not make saying anti-gay comments any more illegal than racist comments. It will, however, protect homosexuals from crazy Christian lynch mobs. Perhaps you can understand how killing a person for their sexual preference is wrong.
Marc
Heterosexual foam-at-the-mouth Christians who rail and whine about "free speech" issues are nothing more than the tears of a crocodile - that crowd has been busy burning, torturing, and persecuting gays and other minorities for thousands of years. Get some psychotherapy and toss the religious addiction, you hate-filled hypocrites!
April
I think that if a homosexual man wants to have a sexual relationship with his homosexual partner in his own home, then by all means do so. How would a Christian- AND I AM A BIBLE THUMPING, HOLY ROLLIN JESUSFREAK CHRISTIAN- look like walking up in your house telling you to stop having sex and doing what you do in your house. But as a Christian I have a right to preach what I believe in my house, in my church, on the street corner, ANYWHERE in this country. Let me remind you that as a Christian my rights are forcibly violated as well. This bill violates them. How dare you ask me the Christian, the preacher to stop preaching what I believe in, because you don’t agree?
april finishes...
Homosexual people believe in what they believe and I got to watch them on TV., listen to them on the radio, watch their parades, their music-You are everywhere, you've got your rights, you screw who you wanna screw….and then publicly talk about it. Now you wanna take away mine. Well, some of us are not scared and we are not going to let you back us into a corner. If you come to my church then you are going to hear the pure word of God. If you don't like it then leave. If you like it stay, repent and get free. Besides, as much as homosexuals & Christians would like to think the world does NOT revolve around any of us. God ain’t playing anymore with silly Christians or goofy homosexuals. Pass the bill; at least you’ll know who all the real Christians are….cuz we’ll all be in jail preaching that same gospel in Jail. Then all your prisoners are gonna get saved…you can’t cage the gospel. We're not going anywhere ya'll so BRING IT!
Disgusted, pt 1
Every person who has posted here, regardless the point of view, has missed (or - worse - chosen to ignore) the three truly reprehensible words that appear throughout the bill: "actual or perceived." They alone should cause any reasonable person to demand of their legislators that this bill die a rapid death. This opens the door for any victim of a crime to claim it was a hate crime in order to exact a more extensive sentence upon the criminal . . . most likely an act based, ironically, on their hatred of said criminal! (Which begs the question: Should criminals now be considered a protected class under this bill?)
Disgusted, pt 2
And for all you self professed lawyers, please note that there is a distinct difference between motive and intent, much as you would like to muddy those particular waters. 'Motive' is the reason why one MIGHT act in a certain way; 'intent' is their hopeful outcome from said act. Motive is oftentimes a factor in determining (though not proving) guilt; intent is usually considered when imposing punishment. And I'm not even a lawyer!
Virginia Caldwell in Thomaston, Ga
This is only an example of The Goverment interfering with the church. As a Christian I will not be silent while this attempt to violate all our rights is being made. As Americans and Christians we need to WAKE UP!!!
awwv
God has been taken out of our schools, out of our public places, out of our post offices and elsewhere, I exercise my right to free speech..GOD IS STILL ON THE THROWN..I agree with those here that want to keep this bill from passing. God Bless America, keep us free!
Ben Noyes
Ahh The simple question
Why do we need it?
The simple answer
We don't
Brian
Just one more step towards the establishment of socialism in America. Mark my words, within 50 years, we will no longer be the United States of America. We will be the Democratic People's Republic of America. Okay, laugh it up, you'll see!
Josh Taylor
Shut up, you church fanatics! I support this bill and I think that this country, the world, and myself had enough of your church freaks telling people what's right and what's wrong. There is no right or wrong. We do what we do best. It's in our blood. It's survival of the fittest. It's all part of Nature. Live with it and quit believing in your imaginary dead savior. Your savior was dead 2000 years ago, he's still dead today and he's not coming back. It's time for us athiests to take over this church fanatic country and turn it into an athiestic superstate. The penalty for those who believe in their imaginary dead savior is death.