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Visitor Comments
Steven Weems
As an employee of a major railroad I say that this bill MUST be passed to ensure that myself, my co-workers, and future generations of railroaders have a safer work environment.
Sam Botts
How will this impact the hours of service for train dispatchers ?
Paul McGuffin
As a retired Union Pacific/Southern Pacific engineer, I can say... if "Limbo Time" is not addressed, the bill is worthless. On my last four trips from Tucson to El Paso, the shortest trip was 14 hours, the longest was 18. I have heard of Los Angeles crews being on train for over 20 hours.
Paul McGuffin
PLACIDO
Paul McGuffin, they rush the LA guys to LA.. and then let them rot outside the yard until just before they are on the law. how nice of them.
Sam Botts, if I remember right this new deal is sort of mirroring the DSs deal, they can only work so many extra shifts until they are forced to take X time off. I'm sure your local chair can get you a copy.
Anonymous Engineer
Pass the bill. Make it law. Eliminate limbo time. Give me whistleblower protection. I don't want to type my name because the BNSF might be monitoring this. After the bil gets signed into law, then the FRSA can reduce maximum time on duty to ten hours. That would eliminate nearly every "bad trip", and improve rail safety one thousand fold.
Anonymous Engineer
Pass the law, I'm tired of being hung out to dry every trip. Eliminate Limbo, get us off the trains before our 12 hours is up. Its gotten rediculus, we sit on these trains waiting sometimes up to 4 hours after our time is up for rest.
Anonymous
Everyone should closely think through the consequences here. Railroads will be forced to remove the ID runs an put all crews back on short pools. You will make 100 miles/trip and will have to work every day making less money than crews make today. This will also speed the implementation of 1 man crews. Paul Thompson is either too stupid or just too short sited to underdtand this.
RFE From BNSF
Dear Mr. Anonymous
The UTU has very wise leaders that know exactly what they are doing. The BLET has just received in their hands the first step to 1 man crews which will be the first step to not having anyone on the train. I’m glad I don’t work on the railroad you work on. It must be bad to consider you can only make 100 miles in 10 hours. The bill has pros and cons as all do.
Mr. Thompson is a very wise and respected man; you must be one of the guys that has his union meeting out in the parking lot with the other kids that don’t know what a union is.
That is coming from a railroad officer.
Cecil Brasher
Pass this bill. Pass it yesterday! I don't know about the rest of you, but Union Pacific seems to be extending the term "emergency situation" to encompass any situation in which their relentlessly fumbling, "pass the buck" style of train management brings movement to a screeching halt.
I am currently working every day 14-18 hrs with no overtime until after 15.6hrs on duty. I am out on my rest at both ends, so I don't see any validity in the warning that we may have to work more and have less time at home. I'm already there. Even if they are as incompentent after this bill as they are now, at least I won't be sitting on a unit in the middle of nowhere wondering if I will get to bed anytime soon.
J.W. Schaeffer
I have high hopes this bill will pass as it should. With a bill like this of course there will be negative effects...but the positives way outweigh the negatives. Yes some people will make less money, so what! Many guys on the railroad would sell their souls for money if they could. They are just money hungry, just what the railroads want. If our unions would grow some ----- they would seek and get higher pay for engineers and conductors, higher pay that we deserve. And to be honest I think it is inevitable, one day they will have their one man crews with or without this bill.
Anonymous Engineer (#1)
Last trip I sat in a siding for seven hours until 'management' finally got a van to us (but forgot the dogcatch crew). We had a 14 hour trip, but went dead enroute 100+ miles from home, which, under the current laws is just fine and dandy. Naturally, a 14 hour day was unnecessary, but the railroads don't have any incentive to get us to our tie-up locations in 12 hours. As for going back to short pools...that means I'd get to sleep in my own bed every night. Bring it on!
Kansas city trainman
Mr. Citizen,
You have worked your 8 to 12 hr. day. You have to wait on a ride to your car in the parking lot. It may be anywhere from 1 to 4 hours more before your ride gets there. Sorry no more pay the waiting (limbo) time it doesn't count. Oh it makes for a very long day,sorry, you've still gotta be back at work after 10 hrs. Live an hour away from work, sorry, you can sleep after you've done what needs to be done at home and spent an hour or so with your kids. Railroads answer: You don't need 8 hours sleep. You probably won't kill anyone this trip.
Gandy
Representative Shuster (R-Pa.) is expected to try to eliminate the limbo time provision to protect inept railroad managers from ordering transportation. To RFE...it is indeed pathetic to go 100 miles in 10 hours but as you are well aware the average speed for trains is not very high. There is NO excuse for 12 to 20 hour days and the judge that said that we do not get any more fatigued after 12 hours is either an idiot or quite well paid off.
California Conductor.
This bill is long overdue. It is ridiculous that the men and women responsible for transporting the bulk of the nations freight and hazardous materials are subjected to these kind of hours. Please contact your representatives and senators and ask them to support this legislation.
Anonymous Engineer (#1)
Well, they just GUTTED limbo time reform from the bill. First, they give exceptions to everything under the sun...and then give more exceptions for "stuff we didn't think of when you departed your initial terminal". Then they allow a full 40 hour work week PER EMPLOYEE PER MONTH of limbo time, and gradually squeeze it down to 10 hours of limbo time per employee per month after two years. In the real world, I'd have to work over ten 13 hour trips in a row in a month to cross the threshhold. That's down from ten 16 hour trips per month for the first year it takes effect.
On top of that, I'd have to spend more time away from home. (mandatory 10 hours undisturbed rest, plus call time)
Yay! Divorces for everybody!
PLACIDO
*sigh* You can't use logic with the railroad usually. But after reading this article it might bring a better picture in mind why some 05 date TY&Es could barely hold in recent months. Cut pools due to unfavorable bills?
http://www.utu.org/worksite/detail_news.cfm?ArticleID=36089
I should have went with Amtrak. &^#* it.
Anonymous Engineer (#1)
I hope they ticked off Brown and Oberstar. As Congressmen (and women) they hold the purse and make the rules. I'd suggest they not cow down to railroad execs, but instead insist upon limbo time reform BEFORE giving any taxpayer money to the railroads to spend on infrastructure improvements.
Placido, do you think anything illegal was done?
Toher
Everyone seems to like this bill & I don't understand why.
You are forced to take set days off. They didn't force the truck drivers to take days off when they changed their hours of service laws.
You are also going to get 10 hours undisturbed at your away from home terminal. Who wants that?
The elimination of the limbo time has been hacked up.
This bill was originally about rail safty, and fatigue i don't think it addresses either.
It just means less money for my family.
30 year employee
This country has the best government that money will buy.
Paul McGuffin
Well, I have been in favor of enforcing the monthly mileage agreement for years. I was over the miles every month while working most pools for the Union Pacific. Don't forget to convert overtime and other hours into the miles.
Tired engineer
THIS BILL NEEDS TO BE PASSED ASAP!!! As an engineer for a Class I railroad, sometimes I am called and forced to go to work when I'm so tired I can barely think straight! The railroads claim to preach safety, but how safe is that when I have my life and safety, as well as the life and safety of my coworkers and the public in general in my hands? This bill should not only be supported by railroaders, but by the general public also. The current hours of service rules are archaic!!! We are 100 years behind on workers' (and the public's) safety when it comes to this issue of railroad employee rest. Wake up Congress, and PASS THIS BILL!!! The only other thing I can add is that if this doesn't pass, and another 'Graniteville' type accident occurs because someone wasn't allowed adequate rest time, it's on the heads of Congress and the FRA, as well as the carriers.
Casey Jones IV
This bill is about the carriers goal to reduce crews to ONE and eventually ZERO. Positive train control allows them to do this and this bill gives the carriers grants to help them design and use it under the guise of safety. The largest part of this bill involves the establishment of another layer of government bureacracy which costs the taxpayer (thats all of us) more money and will certainly add to the responsibilties of our jobs without adding to our compensation.Finally, if the unions would spend the majority of their (our) money, effort and time on contract negotiations instead of using it to support politicians and their legislation due to their inability to effectively bargain with the carriers, a lot of these problems would already be solved.
KCS engineer
I strongly support this bill and have contacted every senator that has cosigned. I don't know about the rest of you but I've set in a hot louisiana siding for 10 yes 10 hours on a non airconditioned engine, and thats the tip of the iceburg. Limbo time has got to stop if every congressmen spent one day with us they would overwhelmimngly pass this bill. maybe thats an option some of them need to explore.
Alemayehu Bera
I Support 2003 Pass
Temrat Wendemu
I am supporting The bill 2003
Zeberga
I support H.R.2003
Liyunesh
I am Support H.R. 2003
Train Guy
WHy are you people talking about H.R. 2003 here? This is a bill about railroad safety. You want to talk about H.R. 2003 - go to the page for HR 2003!!!
me
I think a railroad officer should keep his mouth shut. You don't run our jobs anyway.
Class 1 Engineer
If you don't like your job quit! We need less government not more. Be careful what you wish for, if this bill passes, think about how much money you will lose and how much more you will work. Why do railroaders get paid well, because of the inconvenience of the job. Once we have great schedules and perfect working conditions watch what happens to our wages. You can't have it both ways! The less efficient the railroad is the more we make.
James Swidergal
Let the change take place,pass this bill already, but let's take a look at everything railroad. It's probably time to revamp the entire G-Cor. As far as the carriers' building unmanned operation I can't see it happening, considering that the carriers' can't operate safely or efficiently with manned crews. If anything we probably should be looking at crosstraining the conductors and operators(engineers),so that the operator can safely snooze just as the conductor does now.
No Class RR
I don't want to type my name because the BNSF might be monitoring this. How can a truck driver be dangerous and not allowed to drive after 50 hours but an engineer can be be over 100 hours in the same week? e.g.- Working in passenger service doing 70mph by himself in the cab with 1300 people wanting to get home safely. ***HR2095***
Management
Anonymous Engineer (#1)
I think that the companies have an incentive. When a crew is DOL they no longer move Freight. However they are still getting paid. I try to get my crews if not tied up at least on a van by 12 hours. Why would I want to pay crews to sit on train. That is more management.
M
How would crews feel if they had visability of when they were going to get off their train. Where is my van and when will it get here.
Proud Tucson UTU Member
I have to correct a misconception I am reading from some of my brothers and sisters concerning employees being paid once they have died under the HOS. Many employees are not paid after their 12 hours of on duty time. Every new trainman hired by UPRR will not be paid after 12 hours under the contract currently in place. You could and many have sat on a train or van 16 plus hours waiting to get to your final destination and only be paid for 12 hours of service. H.R.2095 will not address the issue of pay but will start to address the issue of limbo time in favor of the employee.
James Swidergal
It should be added that additional inspectors across all the disciplines of railroad safety be increased that's Operating Practices,Track and right of way,Haz Mat,Signal and Communications,Car and equipment Inspectors. And, the authority be granted to randomly police and enforce the rules and regulations not only of the Carriers' but of all agreement and non agreement employees of all railroads, and those shippers,patrons,and all others. We need such legislation to re-enforce the safety of all who participate in railroading activity.
James Swidergal
And the reason new hired UPRR conductors don't get paid tow in time is because the UTU itself is at fault. Its the only union where the general local chairpersons get to dictate who they will defend and who they won't . It's the only union that defeats itself when it comes to working for the trainmen,instead of their own gain,and their own needs being fulfilled by sleeping with the Carriers'.
CSX SUX
If the same RR butt-kissing folks at FRA get hired at a new "FRSA", what will change? NOTHING! The FRA is basically a massive Cheerleading / butt-kissing section for the RR industry. Safety? What's that? Investigate RR crossing crashes? HELL NO! RR Workers getting killed or injured? Why should they? Since they are totally IN BED with the RR owners, you can bet your last wooden nickel that the crossing crashes / MOW deaths and injuries / crew deaths and injuries, will be ignored and, HEY, if the RR's don't report the crashes / fatals / injuries, SO WHAT? The FRA could care less. What needs to happen is a TOTAL Clean Sweep---ALL CURRENT FRA EMPLOYEES FORCED TO RETIRE (or just GO TO HELL and I MEAN YOU---A****** GRADY!!!!) YOU SOLD YOU SOUL AND YOUR ASS TO THE DEVIL RR LONG AGO!!!!
Robert Pines
The question would be why these phoney railroad thieves and their government handmaidens aren't in a very nasty jail for a very long time for crossing thefts and the killings caused by the thefts.
Former railroader
This comment is for CSX SUX. I know some inspecors that work countless hours (sometimes more than they get paid for) to ensure regulatory compliance. The face of the FRA is changing due to new and younger inspectors that are willing to work nights and weekends. Hopefully, we can get more guys out there that are willing to do the same. I guess it's a little different in your area but when I see a young inspector climb up on the locomotive at 3:00 a.m. Sunday morning, it makes me take notice. I think the FRA could use MORE inspectors that are willing to write violations and not just take defects. It's a numbers game for the railroads and they know that in the past the FRA in a 9 to 5, Monday through Friday program that typically won't have inspectors out at 2 a.m. in the morning wading through knee deep snow looking at railroad operations. I guess more government is not needed, just make the government that is already there accountable.
Anonymous Engineer (#1)
response to Management;
On my railroad, we don't make an extra dime until we run our miles off. So no extra money until over ~14 hours on duty. My railroad, the BNSF, doesn't care if I'm shorted a few extra hours at home or a few extra hours of heldaway ($) at my away from home terminal.
Your comment "at least on a van by 12 hours" makes me want to puke. That is a failure mindset. That's why we call you MISmanagement. FAIL, FAIL, FAIL...over and over again. Should I be "at least in my car in my driveway" instead of at the yard office when going ON duty?
The rest of you should read the original H.R. 2095, then read the marked-up (gutted) H.R. 2095, then read the Bush Administration's recent comments on H.R. 2095. They want to gut it even more.
BNSF Hogger
ATTN: Managment.
Before there was Limbo time when a train crew was about to expire under the 12hrs of service, a train had to be clear of the main line and secured with handbrakes before the crew expired! What does that mean? Alot! 1. Having a DOL crew sitting on a "fully secured" train still making money was a waste of company money! Having a fresh crew wasting time un-securing a train and preping it for movement again was a waste of company money! That was the company incetive to get trains in on time! When the carriers got Limbo Time they were all screaming for joy! No more wasted time with securing and un-securing trains. All us crews instantly became babysitters! Screw you BNSF! I hope this Bill passes and all you Managment choke on it!!!!!!!!!
Howell
Legislation providing additional safety for our rail workers has been long overdue. It also provides for additional jobs for Federal Inspectors and provides for whistleblower protections.
R.E. Starr
Expect to see a lot more of this anti worker crap as long as you have Republicans in the White House and in other importan places in Washington . Let there be no mistake they are truly the corportist party, Bush is all ready againest it and ready to stick it to all those train men that voted for him , shame on you that gave us this problem in the white house.
Colorado UP Conductor
Believe me I share all your concerns and the opinion that something needs to be done to protect us and the protect the public from the dangers of unrested crews. But believe me when I say that This bill in its current form really does us more harm than good. It seems that all to often we take the age old idea that the grass is greener on the other side, when in reality we would just be loosing half our yard of grass. As far as the comment of new hires not getting paid tow in, all of the new hires where I am at on the UP get paid towin. Lets not shoot ourselves in the foot here and really consider what we are supporting. Are we really supporting a good thing, or just trying to stick it to the companys anyway we can without truly considering the consequences for settling.
Howell
It passed the house.With the amendments..Now is the time for all good railroaders to come to the aid of their country..Time to get busy..
Howell
To the Colorado UP Conductor: What union are you supporting? The BLET and the UTU are both supporting this bill for passage. Proud to be union? Then support yours!
Dave
We won now it is on to the Senate. With Chaney having sat on the board of UPRR don't be surprise if Bush veto's the bill.
Wy UP CON/ENG
If the Senate passes 2095 by 2/3’s can it be vetoed?
Phil Walker
I'm new at the railroad. Does H.R. 2095 mean, if passed, that limbo time will be counted as hours of service, and carriers will have to get you to your home terminal in 12 hours?
get real
wow, when will some of these railroaders learn? never? to all of you who hate your job and your management, quit, go find something better. I suppose all railroaders supporting the bill in its current form are either really, really close to retirement or have comfy secure jobs on the main line. If you are not close to retirement then think about your pension (if you have one) when the profits of your company plummet and investors pull ot. For those working in dark territory, you're basically short lining yourself, you'd rather make $12/hr.? The issue is with the union, face it. UTU or BLET, they're playing both sides of the fence, the company is laughing all the way to the bank and the union you support is stabbing you in the back whether you admit it or not.
Anonymous Engineer (#1)
Quit my job and find another one? Why? All I want is for a few words to be changed in a law. Just make all time on duty...time on duty. See how logical that is compared to "neither on duty, nor off duty"?
Your point that changing those few words will the sky to fall sound funny...well, funny for a scare tactic.
I just got done with a 15+ hour trip, where we went dead 145 miles from home. The weather was clear and cool. Traffic was light. No Acts of God or anything. I just work for idiots. Please give me a good law to beat them over the heads with. Please!!! I'll I'm asking for is a few words.
to Phil Walker
Yes and no. (sounds like limbo time, right?)
It would be counted at hours of service UNLESS the carrier decides to count it as limbo time. Then the carriers are limited to giving you 40 hours (!) of limbo time per month. After a few years it shrinks down to 10 hours of limbo time for Phil Walker per month. That's still a crapload of limbo time.
The bill also allows exceptions in case of floods, blizzards, derailments, or anything the carrier thinks is a good reason for an exception, basically.
38 years
The limbo time provisions of this bill are a JOKE. 40hrs or 10hrs is to much and the exceptions give the RR carte blanche.
wife of...
I have actually thought thatthe RR has a desire to employ only single or divorced men. My husband has spent one night in our bed out of five. We've actually contemplated moving to the other end where we could actually raise a family together. The RR is concerned with only one thing ... their bottom line, diffentately not their employees.
Limbo time
This bill allows limited monthly limbo time, 40 for the first year, 30 the second, and finally 10 the thrid and thereafter.
The exceptions referred to in "to Phil Walker" is misleading. These exceptions... floods, blizzards, etc. count toward the limbo time limit.
They MUST claim one of these exceptions as the reason for your limbo time... not just because they forgot to call a ride, or are short on vans.
THEY DO NOT GIVE THE COMPANY AUTHORITY TO EXCEED THE LIMITS. For example, if you accrue your limit of limbo time under the law, the company cannot claim that an emergency situation is cause to exceed the limit... IT HAS ALREADY BEEN REACHED!
Now, 40 hours sucks, I agree. But right now it is unlimited! Also, it will eventually decrease to 10hrs/mo MAXIMUM! How is this bad? Yes, I too would like none at all, but the government is prepared to hand us a New York Steak here... let's not complain because we really wanted a T-Bone.
spokane conductor
Read the bill, not much will change for a 190 mile pool. 270 hours per month is aprox 70 on duty hours per week, no scheduled day off, 24 hours off per week unscheduled is a joke. This bill is a start, but is weak at best. Limbo time is money time on our pool. How about better rest agreements at home and overtime after 8 hours. UP will get us off our trains if it costs them. Hostlers never get overtime!
BNSF Trainmaster (Anonymous for my protection against and violence fro
I have done safety tests on Railroad Crew, tests which are mandated by the FRA and I can tell you from personal experience more restful crews would not make the railroad safer, better crews would. The crews I have seen don’t care about safety, they hardly care about themselves with the stunts they pull so they can get home faster. Including violating the “EIGHT DEADLY DECISIONS”. If Congress wants railroads to be safer than make the FRA test railroad crews and fire those who are unsafe. As a railroad officer I can’t fire then, or even punish them due to the Union Agreements enforced by Congress due to the Railroad Labor Act. An Act lobbied for by the railroad crews. Put some fear into the hearts and minds of railroad workers to perform their job safely and the job will be safe. As for reducing their hours of service to 10 hours, I work 12 to 13 hours a day and even have to go safety testing on my days off to make them safe. They just want more money for less work.
to BNSF Trainmaster
Spoken like a true idiot official. Imagine the horor of sitting on your butt all day playing email tag, surfing the internet, and occasionally driving out to a stranded crew to fulfill your failure quota for 12-13hrs on a bad day. Imagine having to come in on your SCHEDULED DAYS OFF (what are those??). Mr official, please let me know how bad your day is when after your 12-13hour day, you have to call a dispatcher for a ride to get home... but wait, it's shift change and the roads are bad so the vans aren't running. Too bad. If only you were a "better" employee everything would be easier.
BNSF Trainmaster Reply Part 1
Why is it, if the Union has a problem, the first thing they do is go after the frontline supervisor? A person who has no authority (by act of congress) over changing the way things are done? Look, you work or don’t work, the trains move or they don’t, I still have to be there. You get done early means nothing to me since I have to still be there, I am neutral on that fact. Now read this carefully, if you want to change thing for the better, (and I believe you do) you need the frontline supervisors on your side and attacking them because of they way things are presently run is not the way. We can’t change things but you can, remember you are a UNION. You need to force corporate suits (many who have never seen a train) how to run a railroad, and remember to point out, not the railroad of 20 years ago, the present railroad.
BNSF Trainmaster Reply Part 2
I know you can do it, but your attitudes and behavior makes them not trust you, and I can’t blame them. And it all starts with SAFETY
It is interesting, my main position was on safety not on hours. The argument I made was less work hours would not make the railroad safer. Something you didn't want to take up. Either because you don't care about safety (which is doubtful if you are a family man) or because you know the argument is not sufficient to hold up. So what do you do?? You have to complain about your job hoping someone (i.e Congress) will feel sorry for you and change the hours of service. You will never win that argument, and remember if you really run the railroad it won’t matter, you’ll get home even faster. I agree sitting around
BNSF Trainmaster Reply Part 3 END
waiting 3 hours in a siding for a Z train is the dumbest thing on the planet. And Z trains with a CEO in a business car on the end shutting down the whole division is out right insane!!
So how about this, if you want to get home faster have the entire Union do their jobs and get rid of the unsafe, slow, unproductive workers so everyone can get home faster. Remember there is not better example of a supply chain than a railroad and if there is a slow link in the chain everyone suffers. Instead of taking up the argument that less hours would make the railroad safer, change your method of attack. Prove that making the railroad more efficient would solve all our problems, safety and hours which no one would argue with if you are more productive. Also, get the Union involved with safety, and back up the frontline supervisors and demand unsafe workers are terminated. Do that and you’d have a lot more time on your hands instead looking at a RED BLOCKS.
K.Maloney
go to ten hour law....period
Consumer
Remote Train Management System will solve all our problems
conductor A
this is a bad bill. I am a conductor and the way I see it this is just more stupid crap that makes people getting fired and crews being forced to take rest days the company has no reason to leave someone in a siding for 7 hours. last i heard it was the dispatchers job to arrange for a van of dog catch crew. we make more money than most blue collar jobs because of long hours away for home. If you got a problem with that then find a new job!!
I hope this bill gets shot down
UPRR Conductor
To BNSF Trainmaster, I partly agree with your argument, but do you think you are being realistic? Why would we as trainmen want you on our side? All frontline managers do is work overtime to try and intimidate and fire the crews, period.
PART II to follow
UPRR Conductor
PART II
I am an Army vetran (10 years service) and I know all about leadership and how to do it CORRECTLY. Rule #1, build CONFIDENCE in your subordinates, not FEAR. The second you loose trust in your troops, you loose the battle, partner. And that is exactly what you guys and gals have done. It is hightly doubtful, with the archaic ways things are ran on class I RR's that trust in management will ever be a factor.
Part III to follow
UPRR Conductor
Prt III
What we have instead is managers with heart-on's that just want to brag to their buddies about how they just s***canned a crew. You say you want the work done fast so YOU dont get dinged for late cars on the work order, but as soon as you see a crew taking a short cut, you fire them. How counter-productive is that? So, I challenge you, Mr. Trainmaster, change your management style and win US over, not the other way around and you may see some positive changes. I am fortunate enough to work for a trainmaster that truely does care about his crews and we do everything we can not to let him down, both with getting the job done and with safety. He is a good leader and a good man, VERY VERY rare out here. If the railroad would get smart and recruit BETTER management, better crews would be the end result without a question.
to BNSF Trainmaster
Playing insult tag gets no one anywhere. Luckily, in the end, our voices will be louder than management on this issue, regardless of what you think, and Congress will WILL "feel sorry" for us and impose regulations to make it harder to abuse crews for profit.
I hope management takes it as a challenge. I hope they find a way to be productive without slave labor. It would be a great side effect of this bill if our railroads were given incentive to purge the ineffective managers in favor of those that can solve problems without a scape goat to point a finger at.
to BNSF Trainmaster II
On a personal note, I find it immensely gratifying to see management in such a huff over this issue. I think it appeals to one of the basic instincts of man... to see the bad guy lose.
Unfortunately for you, however misled you may be, you are the bad guy here. At least you have lots of company.
CN Engineer
We have an hrly contract on the US side overtime after 10 hrs. Right now $360 base day $468.78 for 12 So if I work a switch engine, pool or local my pay is the same. We get a doller an hr raise every august. 6 days on and 1 day off one week 5 on & 2 off the next week. I can book 8 for 10 or 10 for 12 rest every trip no penalty. This is ok with the extra board guarantee 1600 a week. Down side is no penalty claims when I am pulled off a pool train to finish switching the yard. Or dogcatcing from a local and so forth I am glad this bill is going through limbo time isn't good. I hope that your contract reflect this hrly wage. If The CN can pay 36 an hr the UP, BN, CSX, NS can pay more. As far as the rest of the bill we need it. 100 years is along time with too few changes.
Dopey in NJ
They need to address the limbo time for FREIGHT! There needs to be a seperation between passenger and freight because you're cutting my pay... Seems like they rushed into this bill.
BNSF Trainmaster Reply Part I
First, how many of you have in fact taken a frontline supervisor position? My guess, not many. And why…well that one is easy, the job sucks. The important question is what will eventually happen if you don't address the root problem? (i.e. the real problem between managements and unions, and unions and safety). You will have frontline supervisors who are in fact ill trained and ill prepared to properly run a railroad. And who suffers? Me? I’m not the one stuck on a train in the middle of no where. You are creating a system where the people who know more about the railroad (i.e you) are not listened to by your supervisors because they think you are just saying it because you want early quits or because they think you are just whining. As for finding better leaders, with the industry in the present state, finding leaders are hard because of the nature of the job, remember not many guys are willing to cross the union lines into management.
BNSF Trainmaster Reply Part II
And with the economy doing well, it is hard for railroad companies to compete to get them on the open market. On a personal note, I would not recommend to anyone to become a trainmaster. The crews make more money than the supervisors and the stress does not make it worth it.
Please don’t think that I am some bad guy who doesn’t care about you. I am just saying it as I see it. Remember what you are asking for is only the short term solution. What I am says is look at the bigger picture to the larger problem down the track. Just look at the US automobile industry, the Unions made demands years ago that in long run the industry is no longer able to support because of the saturation of the market place and the opening of global competitors. Honestly I don’t feel sorry for them; they wanted their inheritances up front and spent all the money. History has proven Hayek right and Keynes wrong.
BNSF Trainmaster Reply Part III
It’s harsh, and for that I am sorry, but that is capitalism. Their bosses and American consumers made the decisions because of the way the industry was run. Happens everyday in the United States but stop and think for a minute. Do you think that the frontline superiors at US auto plants who lost their jobs had trouble finding a new job? Remember they were supervisors, and can put that on their resume. What did the frontline worker who put in 25 years on the assembly line doing the same thing everyday put on his resume? Your lives are directly linked with the ability of the railroad to operate. I have seen guys who had to mortgage their houses because the first quarter was slow and they are not getting called for duty. It will affect you more than me. For those of you who are thinking that I am just another mean supervisors remember I am salary, trains roll or get rusted to the rail, I get paid the same amount regardless if you do or not. Yet I am still telling you this.
BNSF Trainmaster Reply Part IV
The more problems/challenges you create with this industry (regulations), the more costs you add to it, which cuts down the advantage it has over the trucking industry. Customers will stop shipping with the railroad if its advantages are no longer there. It happened in the 1960’s and can happen again. Every year companies all over the world become leaner and are able to lower costs left and right and yes there is controversy and employees who become disgruntled over what is decided. So, you make the changes and the improvements, other wise you will open yourself up to competition and management making decisions they should not be making. Remember you run the railroad.
BNSF Trainmaster Reply Part V
As for 10 hour days, I will admit it sounds nice, but remember that means more crews, more HR pay, more benefits, more retirements, more 401K, more medical, and a larger crew pool, which means less for you. If you want a 10 hour day than create it, become more efficient, work with management not against it. I know it sounds ridiculous but remember online retailers are now competing head to head against the brick and mortar retailers and no one saw that one coming. Why, they created a “Killer Application”. One only has to create another to put the railroad out of business.
BNSF Trainmaster Reply Part VI
And to the UPRR conductor who says he works hard and does not let his trainmaster down. That is great! But remember you only need to break one link in the chain to make all your hard work meaningless and that is where the circle of problems comes back again. If the crews at the next station down the line do not have the same work ethic as you do, your hard work is sadly pointless. But if everyone worked as hard as you did, thing how much a difference that would make; how different I don’t know but just think about it. Optimistic I know, but next time you are in a siding for a couple of hours think about it instead of cursing out your trainmaster over the phone because a switch crew, who don’t share your work ethic and are not pulling their weight around, are forcing me to hold you out of town.
BNSF Trainmaster Reply Part VII END
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tucker
Every one is talking about Limbo time. This is only 1 of 2 major causes of Fatigue! IF you read DR. P sherry & DR.Hursh testimony's limbo is a factor but the lack of SCHEDULES is also. I don't care who you are if you worked 16 or 6 hours, when you go to bed at 2300 wake up at 0900 3rd out 1700 your 1st out take a nap wake up at 1830 still 1st eat dinner family goes to bed 2230 you go look at computer to see when your getting out wondering what the hell is going on. Then you try to go back asleep 0100 lay there until 0230 phone rings called 0430 then work just 12hrs final off 1630.. look back over the past 31hrs an 30mins you've had 1hr 30mins sleep. This is where we get FATIGUED!!!
BNSF Trainmaster Reply Part 1
To Tucker: Sorry, Tucker but this is where your Union has failed you. But you are at least going at the problem in the right way. Identify the real problem. From what I got from your statement, you want proper legal/medically required sleep time. I can 100% agree with you there. But the Union maintains that, not the company. Think of the corporate argument like this, you work for the Union, and the Union works for the railroad. If you have a problem with the railroad, address your Union. Every time there is a safety marathon, at 03:00, I don’t see many Union reps, why…. its 03:00 and there home in bed.
Adam Smith was wrong remember, its not just was best for just you, but what’s best for you and the group.
BNSF Trainmaster Reply Part 2 END
Schedules trains were a great thing but are now difficult to manage due to the changing environment. So why not have your Union fix it by changing the way you get called? Why don't you change the call boards? Break the board up into quarters per day. You select a board which you want based on seniority. Say 00:01 to 06:00 then 06:01 to 12:01 and so on. Now you know when you will be expected to go to work. If you don't get a call by 10:31 then you won't have to work till tomorrow. And to deal with surge capacity the extra board would now mean you can get called up to 3 hours after your quarter.
Just try something new and see how it works you, if you fail, at least you can say you tried.
Tucker Reply part 1
BNSF, I do think my union has failed along with the RR. I also think that if something is a SAFTEY ISSUE like "FATIGUED OPERATORS" its not only union but RR's,FRA,etc... so don't pass the buck! Think of it like,IF 40% of all injuries are resulting from people getting hurt climbing on cars getting brakes on an off, The COMPANY comes up with Brake Stick, with or without Union maintaining. Fatigue is PROVEN through numeress studies to not only be linked to Injury but DEATH! So if the coperate people are aware of such studies as you an I, why do we have to wait on Union to handle this.
Tucker REPLY 2
Bottom line is its a MAJOR SAFETY Issue same as hard to throw switches or ruff walking conditions, an the Coperate world reacts to these with or without Union. I appreciate the response an agree with some of it, but to here an official pass the buck on a safety issue as big as an issue to make to CAPITAL HILL is disturbing! FACT by report of FRA.. Being up 21hrs after having 8hrs sleep you have the same Mental State as having a Blood Alcohol level as 0.08. I wouldn't be legal to drive a car in this state, why is it OK to drive a TRAIN! You get caught being up this many hours by lack of knowing when your going to work, and this is all the UNIONS FAULT???
BNSF Trainmaster Reply Part 1
To Tucker: Please notice you did not address my idea of the Union changing the crew line up boards from my previous entry. Why?
As for the idea of brake sticks, yes it is a good idea, and so is safely glass. The FRA mandates safety glasses are to be used by all crews not brake sticks. Wish to guess how many failures I give out for crews failing to use safety glasses? Or not following three point contact?
As for the second portion of your entry, if the Union changes the crew line up board, that problem would be fixed, would it not?
Perhaps, you could respond to the issue I brought up instead of reinforcing the idea something needs to be done. I have brought up and idea that could fix the problem, please evaluate it.
BNSF Trainmaster Reply Part 2
END
Tucker
To.BNSF Trainmaster I do notice that BNSF does have alot more off time for crews with 7/3 work schedules so on. Where i'm at we tried a 8/3 rotation the company said no after a 90 day period. They offered a 8/2 we turned it down, we meet at 7/2, 1 for 1 type deal. What i'm saying is if they "where i'm at" would not go for giving 90 something off days a year, How are we going to get them to go to lets say Protecting 10hrs windows 6 days a week then 2 off days. You see where i'm coming from, why i think its more Corperate Less Union.
BNSF Trainmaster Reply Part 1
To Tucker: The issue we were discussing was safety, which from the Unions perspective would increase if crews had to work fewer hours a day. They state that if a crew had to work 10 hours instead of 12 hours the railroad will be safer. WHY? That is where they have failed making their point with me.
BNSF Trainmaster Reply Part 2
In your previous entry, you stated that sleep deprivation can be the equivalent of being intoxicated, you provided no facts for this but it is an argument I can understand and will back you up on. But if you are sleep deprived by 22 hours or 24 hours it doesn’t matter, you are still sleep deprived, two hours is not going to make much difference. If you are intoxicated, you are intoxicated I don’t care if you are 1.0 or 99.0, I don’t want you on the road. What the railroad crews need is a normal operating scheduled. Which is what I discussed two entries ago and you still have not addressed. I don’t care if you have a 3 on 3 off schedule or a 14 on 14 off schedule or a 14 on 2 off schedule, you still need sleep; that is the issue and one that I can agree with. Your last entry seemed to bring up quality of live, by changing your work day schedule, an important issue of mental health but having nothing to do with safety.`
BNSF Trainmaster Reply Part 3 END
Now again, address the issue I have posted. Brake up your Union call board into 4 quarters per day. That way, you can have a normal sleeping pattern which will help with the quality of sleep not the quantity. Who cares if you get 20 hours of sleep, if you are sleeping odd hours your ability of achieve “REM” level of sleep is diminished. As an example, your present crew seniority would let you pick which of the 4 quarters of the day you want. If you don’t get a call with in that quarter, you don’t have to work today. Sleep pattern solved. Sleet quality and quantity solved. Safety issue solved.
End of discussion.
Again please evaluate.
Tucker Reply 1
To address the 4 quaters per day, I could not agree with you more 100% for it! What I was saying is, our Local Union has tried to get numerous call Procedures like you are saying. We are unable to get company to try cutting it down to shifts, they say it would call for to much Man Power. You are thinking the same way I do "call windows" is the #1 way to first address FATIGUE in the RR Industry.
Tucker Reply 2
To address working only 10hrs instead of 12hrs in a day, I don't think its the best way to make it safer either. You need to have windows to be called in instead of 24hrs a day 6 or 7 days a week. The Fact about being up 21hrs after having 8hrs sleep you have the same "Mental State" as being intoxicated "BAC" of 0.08, came from FRA Report "Validation and Calibration of a Fatigue Assessment Tool for Railroad Work Schedules, Summary Report" October 2006.
BNSF Trainmaster Reply Part 1
Tucker: I can agree with you on the notion as to why the company would not agree with the idea of quarter days by countering that the idea would cost more money because of the need for more manpower. This is how you counter their argument; give up short time board swaps. (Do what Dave Dealy did)
BNSF Trainmaster Reply Part 2
A crew member who has high seniority comes home on Friday night, not wanting to have to work over the weekend and not wanting to use any vacation days, before tying up he bids for a Monday thru Friday yard job. Or where ever he is on the board, he decides to be put at the bottom of the board so he’ll have a larger period of off time. Because he has the seniority he’ll get it. This causes the newbies to have to work more or have the company hire more employees. Now if this is prevalent now, it would only get worse with quarters. So give it up. Make all jobs “secure” for a period of time, say for a rolling 3 month period of time. And get rid of board drops. This will help the company scheduled better saving the company money. Now you will have a counter argument to their argument.
BNSF Trainmaster Reply Part 3 END
This is the same thing that happens with frontline supervisors resulting in the Dave Dealy 3 on 3 off scheduled. Long ago, frontline supervisors operated on the Texas Two Step, Monday and Tuesday On, Wednesday and Thursday Off, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, On, Monday and Tuesday Off, Wednesday and Thursday On, Friday, Saturday and Sunday off. When a new FLS comes on, they only get two weeks of vacation, meaning if they play their cards right, they only ask for Wednesday and Thursday off on the second week of the Texas Two step, so they get a maximum of 7, 9 day periods of time off, where as an older frontline supervisors, who gets first pick at scheduling vacation has 5 weeks of yearly vacations and can get 18, 9 day periods of time off, making the newer worker pick up the slack by having to work on his off days or the company having to hire for FLS. This is all a numbers game.
Casey Jones IV
HR 2095 is a pro company bill- READ ALL OF IT. And speaking of L.T. what happens when you long haul guys finish your trip before 12hrs? Do you just get paid for time on duty or to you make the entire trip rate? What about when the board is fat and we only have to work 3 days and get paid for 7? What about when we deadhead in a van for 3hrs and get paid a full trip rate? If you don't like limbo time then move to different job. The rules didn't change after you started! If you don't like it QUIT! Only 20 cents of every dollar that you pay in dues goes to contract negotiations, the rest goes to union officials and the money grubbing toadies in the Democratic party; a political investment that gets us nothing other than more union jobs in the government which this bill genorously adds to. I think I'm done- be safe.
Thats right.
Don't think its gonna make it.
Conductor
It had better make it!
cp yard engineer
as a yard extraboard engineer, i like what this bill can do if inforced. crews not "working safely" and forcing road crews to sit idely isnt alwasy the case. in my terminal, most trains are held out because the yardmaster doesnt know what to do. this forces us to work longer hours. ive sat first out for over 24 hours. this bill doesnt address that issue at all. the catch 22 is, the more you work, the more tired you are from lack of sleep, but when you also dont work ur tired because if you miss a call, you get tiem off. its the nature of the railroad beast. ive been with the railroad for 5 years and i have 35 more years to go.
cp yard engineer 2
in my terminal, managers order the crews to take engines and use unsafe equipment all the time. it would be nice to see some true acountability finally. this bill is a start. but the railroad wasnt built in a day, and neither will fixing whats wrong with the industry. sadly, i will agree with the trainmaster in that we, the employees, are the biggest watch dog. if we are as serious about rail safety as we say we are, we need to work as safe as we can and deal with the unsafe people by helping them. training needs to be changed, hours need to be changed, and alot of other issues need to be addressed. nothing will ever get done without the field ops department being at the fore front of these changes. give this bill a chance. and through your union, le tthem know what does and doesnt work. thats the way things are supose to work, but i think im living in a dream world.
choo choo chaser
The train and enginmans biggest problem was when the ACD's were replaced by MCO's on the BNSF. The ACD's were also union workers and cared about the crews welfare. The MCO's are management and only care about themselves and future promotions. The have not got their finger on the operation and in most cases would sell their own mother down the drain. ACD's worked with the train dispatchers to ensure the quickest possible means to get the crews off trains and in the terminals in a timely manner. The MCO's have no idea where the trains are at or what direction they are going. We have noticed that most of the MCO's are surfing the internet watching game scores etc. or have head sets on listening to music while the crews are still sitting on trains into the 13th hour. We're all for the 10 hr rule and hope they fine the clowns that violate it.